New Heat Pump - compressor locked

Also, just as a warning, a lot of contractors (myself included) are not going to be install jockeys while you buy the equipment.

If you want good contractors, you can't steal their profit and expect them to be happy. I don't overcharge for the equipment but if you want a warranty, I have to have some padding in the job. If you think my labor is fat enough to keep a business running, well, you are wrong.

I have customers who want to buy online and just pay me for install which I tell them there is zero warranty and I only do that for people I have worked for, for a couple years. I'm not doing that for a new contact because it doesn't make any business sense and it sends the wrong precedent and expectation.

 

No offense taken, but, I didn't want everyone to think solo operations are hacks. Most of my customers love that they get to talk to the owner, they get personal service, they get real, honest answers. If it ain't broke, I don't recommend replacement. And they can call or text anytime and generally I'll respond because I know whose word of mouth is getting me more work. And the prices are better because I don't have an office, multiple trucks, techs, etc. however I know eventually that will all change as I grow. But the fact remains, I don't short cut and I like really clean work and if I quote a job it's going to be done to my standards.

 

Yep

 

I don't disagree. Just gives a good point of reference such as the OP to know if you are being quoted a reasonable equipment price.
Thankfully we have a retired AC guy in our neighborhood who subsidies his social security with installs like this. Granted it may not play nice with warranty stuff but we plan to sell the house in 3 years so it's worth the risk.

 

Granted you are on the opposite coast but is the labor to swap the system really 6k? I honestly have no idea thus the question.

 

I think what your doing by buying the system ( which I have no issue with ) is taking the bread n butter from the larger companies. The local company here quoted me $22k for a Lennox install. 10k+ of that had to be profit maybe more idk. 6 hours divided by $10,000 is $1666 per hour labor. I call that being robbed.

 

Well, depending on the company size etc, it could be for sure. I "pay" myself 35 an

hour. I charge my customers 70 an hour. Obviously that covers my 35 bucks, but then it helps cover all my costs for shit that is needed but unchargeable.

Most companies I'm competing against have lots of trucks and and office overhead etc, so 70 an hour wouldn't cover them.

But, it's 16 hours to do a full swap. 2 guys, one day, or 1 guy, two days. That's a generic figure, if it's a really custom install it will be more. I get into some crazy, basement stuff and the unit is basically built into the structure and 16 hours won't cover it because everything will be done by hand.

But if you are in a suburb, track home, AHU in the attic and it's all standard 16 hours should cover it.

However, they have to make a profit somewhere. If labor is going to cost them 3k, charging 6k is not really that crazy, because it has tons of other consumables (brazing rod, refrigerant, straps and hangers, screws, condensate piping, filter drier, sheet metal, duct sealer, thermostat wire, etc) which won't get lined out on the quote but will absolutely be part of the install.

If they tell you 6 hours, they can't send those installers to another job for 2 hours. The day is burnt and they have to pay their worker 8 hours plus his benefits, workers comp, insurance... It all adds up.

 

(not saying 16 hours at 70 bucks is 3k, just pulling a random number out my ass)

 

Another, hopefully final thought: companies exist to make a profit. Not break even, not lose money. I can't break even every year, or lose money, before the IRS says what the fuck are you doing let's audit you and figure it out.

So, there has to be room for profit, actual money, which as a homeowner you want to scream against because you are getting ripped off but if you have 20 years of experience in your field, you certainly are not selling your services to the lowest bidder. You know what you are doing, you can do it fast, efficiently and correctly. There is a value in that. So remember, these companies have to make money, they have to mark up their labor and equipment, because if they don't they can't exist for long. What is reasonable, well, that is what you the consumer get to decide with your dollars. But just keep in mind they can't give you shit for free. You should be spending you hard earned money with someone you trust to take care of you and who you feel is the best value.

 

Im not an AC guy, but i do a bunch of floor coating installs and I would have estimated most of that type of stuff per job doing a floor...solvent, roller covers, brushes, tape, plastic, etc. I wouldnt line it out in a quote maybe use Supplies $500, but I would have an estimate based on the job...some use more than others.
For an AC install I would think things like refrigerant, wire, piping, etc would be line estimated. No faster way to make a customer feel like they are getting the shaft than for some dude to come over...wander around for 10 min and then go...yep that'll be about 18K...here's your estimate....$18K written on a napkin.

 

Those guys wont be at my house again for that "hey thats 22 grand" and "oh are you paying cash?" "If not, we have financing but you might want an enema 1st cause its 28.99% APR"

Off I went to Lowes/Home Depot for a couple window units

 

Check Costco for good deals this time of year. I did that last year and really like the Midea units I bought.

 

Yep, that's what we got. Work great

 

I had a roof quote just like that a few years ago except substitute text message for napkin. They didn’t get the job.

 

i just did my HVAC in like March. I got 3 quotes ranging from $10,700 (who I went with that was my buddy's HVAC people recommended) to $20,000... for literally the same 3.5ton system, same brand, same model. The $20k dude tried to do the whole dance about finding me discounts and pretending I'm a senior citizen to get it down to $16k and magically do me this favor. The middle guy was at like $15,200 and went down to $13,600. I expected some range, but basically double for nothing different is a WILD swing. I just imagined pocketing all that money every week of the year and people living mad fat off HVAC work sometimes i guess.

The guy who ended up installing asked if I got a quote from so and so (not one of the other 2), but was telling me, yea those dudes will come in and try to sell people on $25k systems, that end up being more finnicky and last shorter than the no frills systems, then I COME IN and look like a damn hero at like half price. Its the easiest sales in my life to follow-up visits to that company.

I was like... no offense to your profession man, I know this is a skillset of an entire career, but for $25k, I'd buy the specialty equipment and watch 15 youtubes and do it myself, that's insane. He was just laughing and shaking his head in agreement, but hey, I guess people fall for it every day.

Even still, I was hoping for like $7-8k, and he said with new regs and COVID that's impossible these days. so $10,700 was the best I could do with something decent.

 

We have converted to the sucker economy since COVID. Most trades try to take half the jobs at double the price and build the business model around it. Same with hotels who have figured out half full at double the rate is better than full at a lower rate. Any in demand business has converted. Some as carry over from COVID and others as an intentional business decisions.
Sadly finding just a couple suckers here and there is more profitable than doing good work at a fair price and staying busy.
Calling around for an electrician to run wire from my panel 16 feet to the other side of the garage door was laughable. Plenty of $1500 quotes acting like they were doing me a favor. Found a good local electrician who did it for 500. Only compromise was he was booked 10 days out. He was in and out in under an hour and we were both happy.

People with skills are worth good money but when the hourly rate for the work is more then a doctor or attorney they can suck it.

 

And I love how the super expensive guys are also the ones you will never get to show up for a warranty issue. As stated here there are still good trades people who care about quality and reputation but for every one of them there are 10 of the bad ones.

 

you know what was funny about it that i was literally thinking as he was there. i was thinking of it in the vein of playing texas hold em', and if he could have read my face/body language better, the expensive guy probably could have got me at like $12.5k. like, how far do you push a river bet when you're trying to maximize the hand, not push him out and get nothing extra, not undercut him when you could have milked out more on your win. it was just SO far beyond the other 2 that i had an immediate knee-jerk reaction to "sorry man there's no way i can go forward with that, that's just way out of the realm of what i was planning." showed him the door. like if he had a better read on me and his competitors, i probably would have let him milk me for a free $1k, or maybe I would have if i didn't bother calling the 3rd guy. the fact he tried to get double was an instant shutdown as a buyer/customer, where even the smoothest sales tactics and retorts get a hard "no." i had no wishy washy maybe replies like one might do with a salesman if they were teetering or being convinced. maybe he still wins enough that he doesn't care in the end to lose me, but i just laughed to myself that i had that thought like... bro, you just jumped the shark, shoulda been more subtle.

 

The reputable company selling Lennox (you see commercials for them on TV here in DFW) said he USED to work for one of the largest in the country. Their trucks are everywhere and used to picture the husband/wife team. Of course, the hoards of money (30 million) and lack of morality took them down. The divorce and business lawyers won the fight over money and the business I'm sure.
Dude checked my credit and started at 26K. He said your approved for 12.9% APR and 45 grand. Yep, if you guessed it...if I paid it off in 10 years it would cost me 45 G's
(it wasn't a shark...it was a MEGLADON)

Bye now...don't call me I'll call you smh

 

lol. one guy tried to work that angle... "but I can get you on a low interest plan, it'll only be like $150 a month." that one i foreal laughed AT him. i was like bro, are you nuts? i don't want home repairs to be another car payment I gotta think about for half the life of the product or more. i guess that's ALSO the way of the world these days though. finance literally everything, even burritos haha. if you gotta do it, you gotta do it, i won't knock somebody's living situation, but in my eyes, i never want to have a payment for anything but the mortgage.