helicopter / jet collision in DC

I'm glad we have @grapemustard here to give us this perspective. DCA is essentially a single runway operation and very busy. If you listen to the tapes, the controller asked the helicopter twice if he had traffic in sight and the second time instructed him to pass behind him. I also believe the controller was about to give the RJ a traffic alert after the second call as he saw it was going to be close, but right at that moment someone else checked in on the approach. Those controllers are super busy and sometimes I wonder when they get to take a sip of water. I have also heard that for years they have been screwing up the hiring process, it started under Obama with his war against private "for profit" colleges which graduated tons of ATC controllers. The DEI kick also couldn't have helped.

I don't care what the color or race of the pilots or controllers were- but the fact that the pipeline is screwed up and there's a major shortage contributing to horrible working conditions is 100% a factor.

I have to dig out my books about the limitations of TCAS, there are times when it's inhibited. However there is only 2 circumstances when it's intentionally turned off, and that's simultaneous approaches to parallel runways when special equipment and additional monitoring is involved (PRM Approaches) and when we're single engine because we might not be able to climb in response. So I assume I would at least get a level 1 alert "Traffic Traffic" but maybe not an RA "Climb Climb".

I don't know anything about the military transponders.

My friends who have flown NVGs basically say you have zero peripheral vision. It's essentially like looking through 2 toilet paper tubes. This was a "night check ride" according to the Army so if they were on NVGs that is significant.

Again I will say that the whole premise is fucked- those helicopter routes have no business crossing a final at those altitudes. Fly down the river to the south and cross at the Wilson bridge or fly directly over the airport.

Hopefully that system will change.

 

While I don't have any flight control experience or ATC experience, I've been exposed to enough of the people and equipment over the years to believe I have an informed opinion on the matter and as of this moment, it's not looking good for the heli pilot.

Outside of that, I can't wrap my head around why anything is allowed to fly through approach and departure flight paths at any point in time. IMO, if there already isn't minimum limits, I'd suggest a mile separation in every direction

 

I wonder how many old timer ATC are left would take the 'package' and just leave in a week or 2 after this.

Things like this definitely make you look at life differently.

 

I worked in aviation and defense for several years, but never on the tower or comms side.

For those of you that are ATC's or heavily involved in air traffic, did you grow up around aircraft or just happen in to it? It seems to be a very intense field.

 

I probably wouldn’t be goggled up right there. Or I would be under them an awful lot. Goggles get washed out with all those lights. FOV is garbage with ANVIS, you have to constantly scan. Depth perception sucks as well.

 

You are sick and brilliant

 

appreciate your insight too Gino

 

i know in IFR training, the student is hooded up while the CFI isn't wearing one to maintain situational awareness. i wonder (and i'm speculating based on reports of NVG's being used that night) if on a two pilot flight, one pilot could not be under NVG's, to help with visual scans (if it is determined the cause was NVG visual overload with background lighting.)

 

Wasn't there a purge at FAA last week?

 

no. the administrator stepped down, but that isn't highly unusual with a new president and cabinet changeover.

 

There could be in a couple weeks though

 

LOL...I doubt if it will be anywhere near that amount of time ^^^^ given all of the action already taken by #47

 

The latest vid makes it look like the heli aimed at the CRJ.

 

Post up the link you posted in the dungeon...

 

Just happened to step into it, as with any person in their 20's I had no idea what I was going to do with my life, happened to apply to an ad in the newspaper for a startup company, worked DoD projects for a few years then the company landed a big ATC project. They needed staff to work field issues. I was always good at troubleshooting/fixing things and nerd out going thru bill of materials, schematics and connection diagrams plus I was willing to travel so I became a field engineer for about 10 years, great gig, really fullfilling, learned a ton. If that opportunity didn't happen I'd be a machinist somewhere and would equally enjoy it.

 

I don’t know fuckall about flying or ATC, didn’t even stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently, but I saw a video that said TCAS doesn’t work below 1,000’. If the fix is drop elevation there’s not enough room. Also in the same video it seems like the helicopter was 100’ or so higher than he should’ve been, 200’ max elevation for the helo, and the plane was a touch low.

I love how everybody, I’m guilty too, becomes an expert on these things. My guess is it’s kind of like the 4 rules of gun safety. You can break one, maybe even 2 or 3, but eventually enough small mistakes line up and bite you.

 

It Almost Happened the Night Before—Flight Had
to Abort Landing at Reagan When Helicopter Got Too Close

https://redstate.com/bobhoge/2025/0...reagan-when-helicopter-got-too-close-n2185023

 

go find out who was flying the chopper, and if the personality might be related to mental illness. more on that over at the other place.

 

Yeah, good point. Someone else mentioned that as well and I remember hearing that.

To be clear - I wasn't saying that it SHOULD have worked and failed, just was trying to understand more about the situation.