Gas vs electric dryer

Not up to date on the Tesla shit but the solar scam bought me a few really nice watches and some other cool ass shit.

 

Funny…my roof I just replaced was about 50 years old…actually the hack that had the house before me had 3 layers of shingles stacked.

So $35,000 for “free electricty” huh? Sounds like a FREE bargain to me. So when does this free shit actually get installed for FREE? Is the disposal/replacement another FREE $35K?

My electric bill’s about $200/month average all year. I just run lights and basic shit like fridge and dryer/washer/water heater. I don’t have a pool or extra hot tub, or multiple refigerators like people I know that do have $700 monthly bills. So 35K on power covers me for 15 years.

You’re an economist?

 

I didn’t directly pay for the panels, they were already on the house when I bought it. And guess what the appraiser gave them for value in the appraisal, nada. So there you have it.

free, was a bad word choice I guess. But if you install a system for. $35k and average $4k per year in power. It’s a pretty simple formula. 35/4 =8.75 years. Now if the system runs for more than 8.75 years you aren’t paying for anything other than the hookup charge to the grid which is $10/month for me.

the actual formula will vary and you can include increasing/decreasing energy costs, etc if you want to get precise. Or even run an npv on the whole project, or what that $35k would earn on an annual basis to be applied to your power bill. Do it however you want.

my situation is one where the system was on my house when I bought it and is a sunk cost as I have already paid for the house. So there’s that.

once again, I’m not trying to convince anyone/everyone they shouldn’t solar to save the planet, etc. I don’t give a rats ass about anyone else’s situation. I was told it’s a ripoff/im gonna really hate it when need to do a roof in a few years, etc. I’m just laying out what my system cost new, and the one they built for my folks place and the economics behind it.

 

@zamboiv And don’t take it as such…cause I totally commend you on not ranting on the Virtue Signaling in this discussion. I’m not going to go back and read my posts, hopefully I didn’t go there either.

This actually has been a great discussion of cost benefit for me and nothing more. I’ve enjoyed that it’s stayed on that, with a smidge of open road littering from @pickled egg. I expect nothing less than that from him.

Jack and Kenny also added great points. One of the best discussions I’ve had on this 70’s disaster movie in a long time.

 

FWIW, I ran some numbers on installing solar on a couple city buildings in Augusta about 7 years ago. The panels have a finite life span and actually start deteriorating from day one in the form of reduced output. Absent the tax credit (not an option for local govt) and generating some surplus to sell back to the utility (not an option with the type of grid used in downtown), we would have simply been prepaying the electric bills for the life of the panels.

 

That's why I like the idea of the solar shingle on a new structure. I'm paying for roofing materials anyway. If it's another 12 to 20 percent in incremental costs for the roofing materials and installation that's not a terrible increase in cost. Do I like the idea of panels over the roofing materials under it...not as much. I think that's the key to success with solar, the product. It has to be able to be an alternative to existing roofing materials in looks and durability with the added benefit of power generation.

 

Also a better idea…But, how do those shingle panels handle things like say golf ball/softball size hail? (Putting on my North Dakota Native hat on when I ask that). Farmers aren’t going to use those wiht all the space they have in their farm yards…but folks in say Bismarck, Dickinson, Williston, Jamestown, Grand Forks and Fargo might. They got rid of all the above ground lines out there in the and 70’s and maybe 80’s, but all the farms heat is propane based. There’s just no other way to go for them in their winters.

 

I agree on the shingles or even panels in places like the midwest/plains states where you get serious hail storms. I have no idea how they’d hold up. During the winds here that caused the Malibu fires, I was wondering if mine would cut loose. Mine are at an angle in back roof so they were effectively sails with a 6 inch gap for the air to go through the bottom. On angle so they get best possible sunlight.

I do think weather, etc in New England states or places with snow certainly push out the costs and effectiveness.

 

Well, if you believe Tesla marketing, which you shouldn't, they were pretty durable. My worries would be durability of the connections between them and the complexity of replacing a failed tile. Hail isn't a huge problem in my area. Yet. The planet could always throw us a curve ball later on.

 

The connections (haven't seen the Tesla ones) are nothing all that special or difficult. pretty much Off the shelf from the manufacturer.

Yeah, all that series vs. parallel but that's not something you as the installer monkey has to worry about.

Been out of that world for awhile but it was kinda like assembling IKEA junk for electricians.

 

Solar shingle presupposes a sloped roof. The building I was researching had a flat roof.

 

I imagine a standard rack mounting with the typical standard panel would be your option? yeah, that whole 400W versus 450 ~ 550w panel but really, a KISS setup.

Looking around this shit hasn't changed much in 5 years. Just the names of the manufacturers and cost increasing.

 

Solar shingles on a sloped roof eliminates the need for an additional shingle roof. Framework for sloping the panels requires additional scope. A minor benefit would be that at least the shaded portion of the roof would not have nearly as much exposure to UV.

 

If you can DIY most of it, shop around for deals and your local energy pimp gives you a good rate on buying excess...solar is getting very reasonable. But if you call one of those places on TV or facebook and get panels put on, your payback is most likely longer than your lifetime.

Also consider @zamboiv lives where electricity is about $.25/kWh, according to the google AI. thats about double the national average and nearly triple what GA is.

SO that helps with the numbers. Now if you drop 50-60K because you think you're saving the planet, your a fool...but if you DIY it, spend like 7-10K and drop your electricity bills to zero and have a 5-7 year payback....then your doing it right, IMO.

 

Spending $35k+ for solar is crazy. That ROI will take forever. Also, solar like a swimming pool, it may help sell your house but wont increase value of it. In Commiefornia, when I bought my house with solar in 2022, I was getting .40 cents per kilowatt return. I never had a power bill first 2 years I lived here. Then Kamila made a green deal with SDGE and all power companies, now I get .04 cents per killowatt return. So now I have a $3000 per year power bill. With solar. So what am I supposed to do? Invest another $20K on Tesla batteries? You cannot win...

 

What's the lifespan on the storage battery after the panels ?

And who warranties the shit in 8 years when they're bankrupt

 

Sounds like your solar was inadequate for the power you use and optimized for the cost of power at the time it was installed.

The idea isn’t to put solar on to sell back the the grid, that’s a fools game and if you think that’s what you’re doing you’re going to a casino planning to win on slot machines.

the idea is to install a system that produces what you draw. So you’re net 0 each month.

 

New roof and solar installed in 2019. 45 panels. I bought it in 2022.

The people who installed solar here in Cali got the rug pulled out from under us.

 

Yeah i think CA made it so attractive for solar erryone jumped on and they had too much 'distributed generation' and they killed it. typical.

 

45 panels?!? How many KWh was the system. That is a massive system.