Can we talk Miatas for a minute?

We had a pretty big breakthrough at Sebring last week for the FARA race. I tried the Hankooks, (my second set of new tires in my Miata career) and BOOM, it was like being in a new car! By pushing incrementally harder each lap, I was able to drop 4 full seconds in one session and get down to a 2:40.3 lap time, no draft. This would have been good enough for 6th and about 4 sec off the pole. I also felt that I had another second in the bag that I just needed to execute properly.

This was a huge breakthrough mentally, because being 8 sec off (even on old Toyos) mentally is very hard, but cutting that in half and being able to actually use the grip of the new tires showed me that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

So for my second race, I wanted to try and get to that pace right away. Well, that didn't happen. Not only was I slow getting up to speed, we had a full course yellow and the race finished with one hot lap and I never got back to that lap time, missing it by about 1.5 sec.

I did have some frustrations with my "team". Before this weekend, I directed them to do alot of work to the car- new blueprinted axles (we broke an axle at the Homestead NASA race and I was lucky not to crash the shit out of the car) Rebuilt / repacked hubs, full alignment and corner balance. I also finished the AIM so we are 99% there with data and cameras.

One of the top Miata guys in the US, Todd Buras, is a part owner of the FARA series, so he's offering to help- it's basically free coaching and I took full advantage. he gave me all of his AIM data before the weekend, and then every session we debriefed and watched video, looked over data, etc.

He was shocked that I was able to drop that much time in one session, and he gave me at least 5 things to try with the car. This is where the friction started. His suggestions were-

1. Try the Gloc brake pads, the Hawks are too "on/off" and harder to modulate. He even gave us a used set to try.
2. Raise the rear 3/4 turn to help turn in / rotation. We actually did this before the tire change and it helped.
3. Run higher starting tire pressure. Right now we're starting at 22 coming off 31 on the Toyo, For the Hankooks He suggested we go out at 28 to come in at 34, we went out at 23 and came in 28.
4. Grease sway bar
5. Go one step harder on one side of the sway bar so we get more rotation.

Basically he feels the car has too much rear grip and it's making me work too hard to get it to the apex.

One by one my crew dismissed these suggestions. Instead it became a negotiation on how to get the car to do what I want. This was frustrating because they are supposed to be the Miata experts, but as I said before I'm the only customer who's racing. Second, we aren't going to win this weekend, so let's try some shit! IF it doesn't work we can go back?

We have the top Miata guy in the country giving us advice and we're telling him NO on 4 out of 5 things. Really?

So this weekend we go to Homestead for SCCA. back on the Toyos, we are starting with a new set. I am determined to try some setup things come hell or high water. There's no free coaching this weekend so I'll be on my own with my AIM data!

 

Did I read that wrong? Why back on Toyos if the Hankooks were getting you further than ever?

Also, if your crew was opposed to trying all those changes at once, I could see that. But would it be worth one or two changes (say pads and raise the rear) see how things go and then try the others?

 

Probably spec tire in SCCA.

And if your times get consistent and you plateau, definitely make some changes..either the car or the crew.

good luck

 

Where's Dutch when we need him???

 

The suggestions for changes came in one session at a time. The only one we did was the rake change (add 3/4 turn of preload to the rear shocks). After the discussion about the sway bar, they agreed to add 3 PSI to the rear starting pressure to try and reduce rear grip but it didn't work- either that, or the front grip was reduced from the second heat cycle so it didn't help enough.

NASA is Toyo Spec tire. SCCA has a sub-class for Spec Miatas on Toyos, but everyone else is on Hoosiers. Hankooks are spec tire for FARA, but you can run any tire- you just lose a point.

My theory on tires is (was?) this:

The Toyo has the least grip, but it's consistent grip down to the cords or at least 15+ heat cycles. So I felt this was the best tire to find the limit on and learn to drive the car consistently at the limit. Plus I was racing NASA so I needed the Toyos. (In reality though, there's only 2 or 3 Miatas and they are not really policing it.)

The Hoosier has the most grip but it heat cycles out in about 7 - 10 heat cycles, so 1 or 2 weekends.

The Hankook either has more grip and better life than the Hoosier, or not? if you believe the hype? But the Hankook vendor was at Sebring this weekend and my coach for the weekend felt I was getting all there was to get from the Toyo so I said what the hell, you only live once? Let's burn some cash on Hankooks!

My latest theory is that the Hankooks uncovered the fact that the car isn't turning in well- the new tires had enough grip in front to make it happen and that allowed me to get to the apex faster and hold the line on exit with my foot on the floor. But we need to make a change to see if we can correct that without using the extra grip of the new tire as a bandaid.

 

This thread is Steeltoe Approved.

 

People are always saying they want a spec motorcycle series because it will be cheaper. When I say it isn’t I get laughed at. I’m sending them to this thread from now on.

 

respect for racing anything but...

 

Looks like a blast. I’ve never done any 4 wheel racing but definitely am interested for when my little man gets older. He’s already ripping around at 2.5 on a balance bike so it maybe a bit of both

 

Every time you move the steering wheel off- center, you're slowing the car. This is one of the reasons why a bit of oversteer is often faster than a bit of understeer, and it is why getting the car to rotate into a corner is preferable to steering it to the apex. Some race shops are reluctant to set up a car to rotate well, however, because it requires greater driver skill to avoid wadding up the car and they don't want to have to deal with that.

 

Couple of tragically stupid questions:

Are there certain years that make better track cars? Are there limits on the years you can race in the spec classes?

 

There are some differences in the cars and different regions have different ‘spec rules’. And they do have some things you can update to the older cars to help make them better, but for a regional series buy a car already prepped and have fun.
For national level there are definitely preferred years/engines to run up front

 

Statute of marital limitations has not expired on that story. Ixnay on the Iatamay

 

Yes, "It's Complicated" but the '99 is generally believed to be the best Spec Miata. It has the 1.8 engine and the newer NB chassis. The 2000 cars are VVT engine so we have to run a bigger restrictor plate and a higher minimum weight. However you'll find that races are won with all of the 1.8 cars, including the VVT. The 1.6 (pop up headlights) may still win some regional races but they are generally not at the pointy end.

Then there's the newer NC Miata that is another class, SMX. But there isn't as many of them.

 

We had a little come to Jesus meeting before this weekend. They showed up with setup sheets (which I've been asking for for 6 months) and we worked alot better together to get the most out of the car.

Michael you're spot on. They are afraid that some little change is going to make me spin into a wall so they are reluctant to make the car looser on entry. But at this point that's exactly what I need. I'm having a hell of a time getting the car to the apex. It drives off pretty damn well but I have to turn in a little early, over slow slightly, or just induce a half spin to get it to the apex. Even then I'm usually early because I have to start the whole process earlier in the corner. Or I just over drive the setup and end up doing a little Tokyo Drift (or should I say Toyo drift?) HA!

I'm not saying I want a car that hangs the ass out every time you turn the wheel, but on the hankooks the car just turned right in and I was wide open way earlier. I can work a whole lap to gain 10 car lengths and the douche kid on Hoosiers is right back on my bumper in one or two entries where he's just driving right to the apex and I'm plowing and rotating my way there.

I also learned a valuable lesson this weekend, which is once the session starts, you have to drive the setup you have, instead of trying to drive it like you want and then complaining that it's not working.

I have alot of work to do to get better on the first lap, too. Still too timid. Lap times are coming around, though. I was able to "win" 2 races this weekend, but it's the SM-T class on Toyos.

Hoosiers from now on, no more wasting time trying to get the car to work on a slower tire.

 

Good point about driving the setup you have. If I may make a suggestion, to induce a bit of turn entry oversteer, try getting off the brakes suddenly, rather than smoothly. The sudden shift of weight rearward will loosen up the car, and then get back hard on the throttle as the car rotates, to get the rear to stick again. It is a bandaid but on my SRF it worked fairly well in medium speed corners. Moving the brake bias rearward a smidgen will do the same thing but it really cannot be made corner specific.

 

Yes! this is kind of what I do, (when I execute it correctly). They call it the "M shaped graph" In that your brake pressure graph looks like an M shape- with the last little spike in pressure before a quick drop off designed to pin the nose of the car down (i.e. load the front) and then a quick turn in to get some rotation. As soon as you touch the throttle in the Miata, the differential locks and the rotation stops. Add any more throttle and the push starts.

I have to remind myself that I'm trying to be equal to guys who've been doing this for 10 years or more and I'm on my 5th weekend- but it's different than motorcycle racing- If you don't have fear of dismemberment holding you back, it's more a simple game of doing what the others are doing, (which I fully believe I can do).

I hate to admit it, but managing your fears in the car is way easier, especially for motorcycle racers. I know nobody will admit it, but no matter how you try to put it out of your head, it's always there a little bit when on the bike that things could end badly. In the car it's almost a game.

 

I went from four wheels (10 years racing sprint karts) to two wheels (10 years racing bikes) to four wheels (8 years racing SRF, and FF briefly), back to two wheels (4 years racing bikes) most recently. The general ideas for getting around a race track quickly don't differ, but the details differ significantly. I found that it takes some time to become your best after switching disciplines, so be patient with yourself. If your experience is similar to mine, you'll go a good bit quicker next year than this year.

Fear, in a car? What is that? I'm kidding but only barely. The only time I've felt fear racing on four wheels was a rain race at Watkins Glen where I was heading down the back straight at about 115mph unable to see more than 50 feet in front of me. That was scary. Bump drafting in the middle of a 3-4 car congo line, side by side with another bump drafting congo-line, that is just racing. You have a big advantage there over many of your competitors, but the best guys aren't fearful and they're skillful as well. You'll get there too, Gino.

 

I remember reading in Road and Track an article about Lemons racing or something similar. IIRC if the organizer found out there were any teams of motorcycle racers, they would be penalized before even turning a lap.

He said he had to make them uncompetitive otherwise they would drive with reckless abandon trying to win.