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Air India setting records

Discussion in 'General' started by ChemGuy, Jun 12, 2025.

  1. inpayne

    inpayne Well-Known Member

     
  2. backho

    backho Well-Known Member

    Given the position of the switches, is it possible to lift the guards and throw both at the same time?
     
  3. Martin Lewis

    Martin Lewis Can we go back to the track already?

    No. The locks require you to pull the switch up before they'll move. They're not hard to toggle, but they require a deliberate action to do so. I would need both hands to do them at the same time.
     
  4. Jedb

    Jedb Professional Novice :-)

    Thanks for the comments. That's helpful.
    So far, starting to appear to be human driven & not mechanical.
     
    Gino230 likes this.
  5. motion

    motion Nihilistic Member

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cx20p2x9093t

    Right seat pilot was flying the aircraft.

    "
    It says that in the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he “did the cutoff”. The other pilot, it says, responded that he did not do so.
    "
     
  6. Rdrace42

    Rdrace42 Almost Cheddar

    Well....it's either ridiculously poor training and certification of the crew, or deliberate.
     
  7. Dave Wolfe

    Dave Wolfe EV Hater

    Id say the captain is most likely the one with the muscle memory to do that. I dont know about their operations but my guess is the captain would usually taxi to the gate and shut down the engines.

    A jump seater may have done if there was one.
     
  8. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    From the report:

    The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42
    UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned
    from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1
    and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut
    off.
    In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff.
    The other pilot responded that he did not do so.
    The CCTV footage obtained from the airport showed Ram Air Turbine (RAT) getting deployed
    during the initial climb immediately after lift-off (fig. 15). No significant bird activity is observed
    in the vicinity of the flight path. The aircraft started to lose altitude before crossing the airport
    perimeter wall.

    As per the EAFR, the Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch transitioned from CUTOFF to RUN at about
    08:08:52 UTC. The APU Inlet Door began opening at about 08:08:54 UTC, consistent with
    the APU Auto Start logic. Thereafter at 08:08:56 UTC the Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch also
    transitions from CUTOFF to RUN. When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to
    RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control (FADEC)
    automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction.
    The EGT was observed to be rising for both engines indicating relight. Engine 1’s core
    deceleration stopped, reversed and started to progress to recovery. Engine 2 was able to
    relight but could not arrest core speed deceleration and re-introduced fuel repeatedly to
    increase core speed acceleration and recovery. The EAFR recording stopped at 08:09:11
    UTC

    As per the EAFR data both engines N2 values passed below minimum idle speed, and the
    RAT hydraulic pump began supplying hydraulic power at about 08:08:47 UTC.
    RAT in extended position
    15
    As per the EAFR, the Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch transitioned from CUTOFF to RUN at about
    08:08:52 UTC. The APU Inlet Door began opening at about 08:08:54 UTC, consistent with
    the APU Auto Start logic. Thereafter at 08:08:56 UTC the Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch also
    transitions from CUTOFF to RUN. When fuel control switches are moved from CUTOFF to
    RUN while the aircraft is inflight, each engines full authority dual engine control (FADEC)
    automatically manages a relight and thrust recovery sequence of ignition and fuel introduction.
    The EGT was observed to be rising for both engines indicating relight. Engine 1’s core
    deceleration stopped, reversed and started to progress to recovery. Engine 2 was able to
    relight but could not arrest core speed deceleration and re-introduced fuel repeatedly to
    increase core speed acceleration and recovery. The EAFR recording stopped at 08:09:11
    UTC
    At about 08:09:05 UTC, one of the pilots transmitted “MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY”.


    Summary:

    08:08:42 Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position.
    One of the pilots asks the other why did he cutoff.
    The other pilot responded that he did not do so.
    08:08:52 Engine 1 fuel cutoff switch transitioned from CUTOFF to RUN
    08:08:56 Engine 2 fuel cutoff switch also transitions from CUTOFF to RUN

    Bottom line, a human hand in the cockpit physically moved the fuel switches to cutoff, one at a time, an unbelievable action which only happens on the ground- your hands should be nowhere near there and there's nothing on that pedestal that requires intervention during takeoff.

    The switches are electric, the high pressure fuel valve on the engine control unit is shut, the spool down of the engine is instantaneous. It would feel like hitting a brick wall to go from high thrust / high climb angle to no thrust. So the pilot flying instantly knew- it took about 1o seconds to get one of the switches back on, followed by the other, which triggers the auto-relight, but they were both below idle at that point so it's 15 or so seconds they didn't have.

    Absolutely crazy.
     
  9. ducnut

    ducnut Well-Known Member

  10. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    Mostly made sense but I'm naive enough to miss things. Anything in the report an issue with either engine before manual cutout?
     
  11. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    So in a dukes of hazard analogy,the dude slammed it into park just before they hit the ramp?
     
    Rebel635 and ducnut like this.
  12. gixxerboy55

    gixxerboy55 Well-Known Member

    Pilot sabotage, reminds of 370
     
    Gino230 likes this.
  13. baitdragger

    baitdragger Well-Known Member

    Combined 19,000 of flight time. Doubt they got that way by poor training.

    complacency, accident or deliberate is my guess

    my father had 3,000 hours. He exerted as much effort flying as he did cutting the grass.

    we aren’t talking about new pilots due to DEI hiring. If the news is correct these guys have tons of time
     
  14. A. Barrister

    A. Barrister Well-Known Member

    More like neutral, or turned the ignition key off.

    But yeah, something like that.
     
  15. Dave Wolfe

    Dave Wolfe EV Hater

    Someone lost their head or wasnt awake quite yet.
     
  16. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    I can almost get my head around wanting to press the self-delete button.

    What I can't fathom is taking hundreds of other people with you.
     
    Chango, Yzasserina and Gino230 like this.
  17. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    This one has far more evidence pointing towards deliberate action by the pilots than MH 370. That one looks more like a fire and pilot incapacitation to me.
     
    SundaySocial likes this.
  18. notbostrom

    notbostrom DaveK broke the interwebs

    Or an ice bomb air freshener hanging off the cutoff switches
     
  19. gixxerboy55

    gixxerboy55 Well-Known Member

    India is a Muslim minority country, with a lot of problems.
     
  20. backho

    backho Well-Known Member

    One of the YT videos mentions that the pilot probably had his hand guarding/behind the throttle levers. Any way his hand could have slipped and accidentally bumped the cutoff switches even with the guards? Could the guards be slightly off their detent positions??
     

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