Air India setting records

That's disturbing. I flew a 152 in AZ learning that was out of rig or something. It would drop a left wing something fierce.
I hope a 474 is better than that thing....

 

I had a semi psycho flight instructor that one day decided stomping on the rudder pedal during a full power off stall would be fun. I got us out of the spin and flying again and he looked at me and said, "good job, we don't have to do anymore of those unless you want to."
I told him I was cool with them, as long as it wasn't a surprise next time. Same dude pulled the power to idle and had me do a simulated engine out landing all the way to the ground with a thunderstorm approaching. Dude kept it exciting for sure.

 

Sounds like he was testing your reactions under stressful conditions. Looks like you passed.

 

My multi instructor was a good friend and pilot mentor. He’s aerobatic, millions of hours in pistons and jets. We’d land single engine and some other stuff. He was always saying he didn’t want my first time doing it to be with my family on board which I appreciated

when I instructed I would introduce things as appropriate that may seem crazy to the student but it was always in control and the student was in a place where it would give them confidence rather than scare them

 

My multi engine instructor was a little nutty, probably because he'd been in that job for 5 years while all the other guys would move on after 10 months and 1000 hours. He used to sneakily move his hand down and shut off the fuel selector to one of the engines. Causing a no shit failure, an unpredictable amount of time later when I could see his hands. But the valves in the Seminole were a little old, and the boost pumps could sneak a little fuel past them, which would lead to surging and manifold pressure jumping all over the place, which is actually harder to control than an absolute failure.

It kind of came in handy many years later when I had an engine quit on takeoff flying my brother's Twin Comanche, as I brought the throttle slowly back to idle I realized it was still making a tiny bit of power, which probably saved our ass.

 

Not looking good. The only way both fuel switches end up in cutoff is if someone on the flight deck put them there. The checklist for Loss of Thrust on Both Engines does call for them to be switched off and on (resets engine control for emergency restart), but it's pretty unfathomable that someone could possibly try this within seconds- and it would do nothing at such a low airspeed.

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/ai171-investigation-fuel-control-switches/

 

Wow

 

daggum

 

Does the checklist work to restart both engines in parallel or in series? I would suspect you would want to get one going again, and then work on the other.

 

@ChemGuy so, if I'm reading this correctly, the possibilities of the article posted by Gino are potentially

1) They never switched the fuel switches from cutoff to on (not sure if there would be enough fuel in the lines to take off though)
2) There may have been an attempt to re-start, based on a loss of thrust (moving the switches from ON to OFF, and then back)
3) Inadvertent turning off of the switches which seems difficult to believe given the stop lock mechanism (see graphic below from article)
4) something else?

 

The only thing that makes sense is one of the pilots thought there was an engine failure, then the pilot flipping switches either killed both engines in response, or killed the good engine if there actually was a real engine failure.

 

A single engine out in one of these should be a non-event, right? They're not piston twins with just enough one engine performance to reach the crash site and you better do everything correctly and right now. Unless there's fire, I thought guidance in jets was to do nothing until you reach a certain altitude so you don't make a mistake like that at the wrong time. Take another sip of coffee and pull out the checklist.

 

Yeah, its really weirs for both to be off. Like Dave mentioned, its possible they shut the wrong one, or both off. It wouldnt be the first time someone shut off the good engine and crashed.

Its frustating sometimes how long it takes for info to get release. Like the plane was right there....you got the black boxes out like the day after. What does the FDR and CVR say?

 

Thanks for the reply. I don't fly (other than commercial) but it's an interesting topic to me.
I'm guessing that the folks that have the data/vox recorders are just trying to be thorough.

Would there ever be a validation of data where the same information is given to two independent groups?
i.e. Group 1 and group 2 get the FDR/CVR but are kept apart to see if they arrive at the same root cause?

 

Typically its never a single root cause but a combination of a few contributing factors.

Sometimes its clear cut like when Sully hit the birds.

 

Hey Hey Hey now...those birds hit HIM.

 

As I was saying...

 

I'm sure it's a multitude of factors that make up this crash.
I was just thinking that if two groups hear/see the same data, but independently arrive at the same conclusion, it's a higher probability of being (one of) the root causes.

 

I didn't know they were building planes with sheep skin seats anymore.

I wonder what filth is in the cushions of our old planes

 

It says no one is saying shit till the lawyers can spin it