Air India setting records

You could make a case that there should be, but the union is going to fight it. In this case I don’t know how much it would help. You would see a pilot reach down and shut off the switches. The “why” would likely remain unanswered.

 

You got two hands to do the job. One on the yoke, one of the throttle.

I'm starting get a strange feeling that I'm giving a lecture on how to effectively kill passengers... FBI, if you're watching that is not the case!

 

I think there is some value in knowing with certainty that the airplane design didn't cause the crash. The way things are at the moment, with the information that both pilots seem surprised that the switches were flipped, there still remains a tiny bit of doubt.

 

Ha yeah but you know flipping those switches is a lot more sneaky than just going to idle.

humans are wild. Never in a million years would I have thought about doing that.

 

You can read a lot from HOW it was done. Was he flipping through a checklist or casually leaned over and did it. It's not perfect but

 

How do those fuel cutout switches work? Do they go directly to a relay, which then activates a pump? OR, do they tell a master computer what the pilot wants, and then the computer decides whether to turn the pumps on or off.

Does anyone here get what I'm getting at?

 

This is a Boeing...not a Eurotrash we will tell you what you are allowed to turn on and off Airbus. Pretty sure when you flip those switches the fuel is cutoff...and right now.

Also, I dont fly those big planes, but from what I have heard and seen in videos, those switches have to be pulled up like a 1/4 in or more and the moved to the other position. Its not a light switch or motorcycle kill switch where you accidentally brush it and it switches.

Someone pulled those up, flipped them off, both of them. Whether they had a major brain fart or said eff it...hit something hard I dont want to limp away form this...well I dont know.

The real Ahole in me thinks it was the guy who asked about the switches. Think like this...you've decided to end it in spectacular fashion and take 200 odd others with you. You know from training and US Air 1549, if you have dual engine failure low enough your definitely landing off airport. A few seconds after rotation, you flip the switches. You know that this will come out in the FDR. So to cover your tracks you then say...why did you flip those switches? So the investigation will look at the other guy. Not sure how Air India does it, but I think it should be like this with the FO flying the plane...
everything is set, FO pushes throttles forward and then lets go, both hands on yoke (Boeing)
Cap covers throttles in case of need to abort T/O until V1
After V1 Cap removes hands as they are taking off regardless now, FO covers throttles rotates and climbs

So at this point the Cap shouldnt be on the throttles, maybe the FO is.... @Gino230 @MGM @Steak Travis when does the PF stop typically covering the throttles? right after rotation?

Thats when someone reached over and flipped those switches and killed all those people. You guys are gonna have to fly one handed now to keep the other guy form killing erryone.

 

The PF will have his hand on the throttles up until V1. Then his hand comes off the throttles and moves to the yoke to rotate.

 

OK...I have read some places the Cap takes the throttles regardless to abort the TO, if needed...faster than saying it to the FO if he is flying

 

if I’m monitoring, FO sets take off thrust, then I (cap) get the throttles until v1. Next we’re rotating shortly after and PF doesn’t have to touch the throttles until after first flap retraction to set climb thrust.

it works well for us. I just had an engine failure before v1 in the sim and had it called out and aborting before I think the FO knew what was going on .

 

What does PF stand for?
Cap --> Captain
FO --> First Officer
PF --> ??

 

PF is pilot flying. PM is pilot monitoring.

PF is the guy working the flight controls. PM is guy bring the landing gear up and working the radios etc

Theres a whole choreographed dance, and the PM gets more duties when the PF is hand flying vs using the autopilot.

 

Guess it's a good thing there are guys like you and Gino. I'd just jamb the throttles to the stops and yank the stick when I could see the end of the runway

 

Thanks for the explanation. Division of labour & stacking more tasks on the non-flying pilot makes sense.

 

I just saw a comment on another bbs indicating the captain was being treated for mental health issues.

 

I work with Cessnas not Boeings, but on our ac the switch provides a signal to the FADEC (both channels) and then the FADEC sends a signal to the fuel control to close the shutoff valve. I think Gino mentioned an 8 pole switch so there are multiple signals being sent for redundancy.

 

We might not touch our throttles till getting ready to land after setting toga.

 

Understand what you're getting at. (Had that thought myself briefly.) But there were words exchanged in the recording about the switch physical settings. So it's not as if 'the software' just shut off the engines while the crew was going "WTF???".

 

There is 1 possibly 2 people who know why those switches were engaged to cutoff. Sad that all those people died because of their actions.

 

Two people that you know of. What if a haint did it?