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MotoAmerica - Round 2 - Barber 05/19-21

Discussion in 'General' started by motodog650, May 5, 2023.

  1. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I agree with this in most cases. But damn, this race was eff'n epic…
    https://www.drive.com.au/news/bayliss-falls-then-rises-to-the-occasion-20100824-13md2/ :)
     
    Yzasserina likes this.
  2. stk0308

    stk0308 Well-Known Member

    Would that have been inspired by the Aaron Yates move?
     
    Once a Wanker.. likes this.
  3. tgold

    tgold Well-Known Member

    The problem that I saw with it was that it wasn't a spec tire series at the time and it penalized the companies that had tires that would go the distance. That's like Honda asking the race length to be reduced for everyone because their motors wouldn't go the distance before they blew up.
     
  4. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    ok, but car racing with a 230mph average speed, isn't remotely close to motorcycle road racing.. and i can see why some may make an argument for open mfg tire rule, but the racing is better with a spec series. And i think we would agree, that if a mfg makes bad enough tires, long enough, that mfg will suffer financially.
     
  5. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I wasn't advocating for multiple manufacturers. I think that a single supplier makes sense for many reasons below the GP level. But they should pay a price when they screw up just like when there is competition, otherwise they have no incentive to do their best.
     
    MELK-MAN likes this.
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Ours is anyone not running on track at the time of the red - but that is for scoring a finished race. If it's a restart they have to get reteched and they can restart, original grid spot and all.
     
    969, Once a Wanker.. and stk0308 like this.
  7. redtailracing

    redtailracing gone tuna fishin'

    So I'm also confused about something else... Isn't most of MA's rulebook just the FIM rules, except where something unique to MA necessitates a unique rule? I seem to remember that even the Daytona 200 rule that everyone bitched about this year - turns out the FIM even wrote that section, even though it's entirely unique set of rules and circumstances since there is nothing else like the 200. But the FIM still wrote it just for that race. So if we're talking FIM rules, why are MA's rules regarding a restart after the red different from FIM rules used elsewhere? Isn't the rule for both WSBK and GP simply that you have to return to the pits under your own power within 5 minutes? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

    I have no dog in the fight. Never met the Rodios, don't know shit about them or their program. But fuck man, between risking the riders' wellbeing by waiting entirely too long to throw the red and then the call regarding Gus... I might've gotten myself banned from MA events if I was Kevin. And as an avid fan and hopefully once again future participant of the sport, I've gotten on here and other platforms plenty of times when people were bitching about MA and reminded them how much better off we are today compared to the DMG days, touted my support for the streaming service, encouraged in person attendance to races, and generally tried to be as supportive of the series as possible (especially when they take a new direction such as baggers or the supersport rule changes last year), including spending my own dollars on Live+, attending a couple races per year, buying the merch, etc.

    But fuck man, they're making it hard this year. Seems to be just one dumb fucking thing after another.
     
  8. Knarf Legna

    Knarf Legna I am not Gary Hoover

    No, they are essentially the same. But in this case I believe that FIM implemented it after MA.

    Screenshot_20230522-151603.png
    Screenshot_20230522-151655.png
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2023
  9. Basura

    Basura Well-Known Member

    Is it still the same people (Arango?) in Race Direction that Mr. Rodio had issues with last year?
     
  10. Dave Wolfe

    Dave Wolfe I know nuttin!

    Between this and the daytona 'not really a 200 but a 5 lap sprint race' yeah its getting tough to respect the motoA orginization.
     
  11. Rising

    Rising Well-Known Member

    With how loose the Ducati was I was amazed that Herrin made it the whole race without tossing it; that thing was all over the place. In comparison Scholtz seemed to have his tires a lot more in line in both races than I have noticed in the past. And I think it showed in his results too.
     
    Boom and Once a Wanker.. like this.
  12. grasshopper

    grasshopper Well-Known Member

    javyday said:
    Ezra qualified in the superbike session. 26.0 putting him P2 in Stock 1000

    They allowed the riders in Stk1000 who were top 5 in points to practice and qualify with the superbikes but only gave them the 1st 20 min of the sessions so they were unable to practice their starts. This also almost fucked us at a point over the weekend because we still had to follow the stk 1000 tire mounting schedule. Because they let us practice, qualify and warm up with superbikes we should have also been allowed to get tires with the superbikes. I can't remember what race it was but before one of the races I was only able to have Kaleb's rear tire on warmers for an hour because of the tire mounting schedule. We were bouncing back and forth with the decision between running the R5 or R3
     
    Monsterdood, Boom and 5axis like this.
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    That is just way too confusing but I get it to make the SB track time more full.
     
  14. assjuice cyrus

    assjuice cyrus Well-Known Member

    I think it was done due to the amount of entries in the stock class. To not make the stock 1000 practice over crowded.
     
    5axis likes this.
  15. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    It was done because only the top 36 qualifiers in STK 1000 will be allowed to race. But there were well over 40 entries and to meet track density they put the top STK 1000 guys in the Superbike practice. I think that was a smart move, as those sessions can get very crowded at a 2.6 mile track.
     
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    That makes sense but damn tough on the others in the class figuring out where they are with qualifying and such.
     
    Gino230 likes this.
  17. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    Tough weekend for us. I came out of the gate strong in practice, but then the track got some rubber laid down and I was chattering everywhere. We threw everything at it but I never got comfortable again. Sunday after warm up they posted a bulletin that they would allow the Twins to run the R5 front (harder) and I can only assume that was because of the Yamaha teams complaining about chatter. I barely got within 2 seconds of last year's times and was just in the way at that point. Not fun.

    I'm even more impressed with the other Yamaha riders, the fact that they were able to ride around that situation and still run those times is amazing to me. From the videos they were getting it in the same places I was, they just compensated better. :bow:
     
  18. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    I'm sure you've got better solutions (I know nothing about twins bikes) but on my R6 I used to get terrible chatter with 0129 or 2662 fronts at "normal" pressures. We ended up figuring out, with the help of a suspension pot and a 240hz camera, that the tire actually had too much grip and was causing a load-up/surge/slip/catch cycle. We never successfully tuned it out with valving but I found that running 42psi got rid of it perfectly. 41psi, chatter. 42, smooth as butter (and still had all the grip I could want). Might be worth a try if you run out of options.
     
  19. Gino230

    Gino230 Well-Known Member

    I agree it's grip chatter- We worked up to 41 but with our limited track time we never got higher. We literally checked everything:

    Tire Pressures (up and down)
    Tire warmer (with heat gun)
    Tire Gauge (vs. Dunlop's test gauge)
    Steering head bearings
    Frame bolts torque
    Triple tree torques
    different forks
    Reduced preload
    Increased preload
    2 different tire compounds

    Etc. etc.

    It's minimized if you stay on the brake, or if you gas it hard enough. That's what the top guys are doing, they carry the brake deeper and gas on earlier so the time at full lean with the bike "rolling" around the corner is minimized. I wish I could get in that deep to make that technique work for me, and I may be able to.....but not in one weekend!

    This is the only time we've ever encountered chatter in the FZ. Last year at Barber, I was just starting to get a tiny bit going into T1 when I released the brake, but that was going 2s faster.

    Road America and Laguna are going to be interesting for Dunlop and MA, both have new pavement and I'm not sure Laguna's has been tested?
     
    tophyr and Peter Hively like this.
  20. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Try a trackday and keep going higher. Sounds like you got right to the limit of where I was still feeling it - like I said, 41psi chatter all day, 42psi smooth as butter.

    That said, I don't think I could convince myself to go any higher than 45psi. Even 42 took me a full day to really trust.

    FWIW: the "right" fix, as I understand it, is a shim stack with a slightly faster "mid"-speed compression. Our working theory, that we never really followed all the way through on, was that once the cycle started it was kept going by the compression damping being too harsh at the fork travel speeds the chatter was inducing. The tire would catch, and the fork wouldn't be able to compress fast enough to "eat" the momentum difference, which would push that onto the tire, which would then slip again.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2023

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