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Adjustable Triple Clamps 600rr

Discussion in 'Tech' started by Taki, Dec 17, 2022.

  1. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

    I have been told by a local mechanic/racer that my 600rr would perform a lot better if I bought adjustable triple clamps. Specifically that it would also help to get rid of the vague feeling on my front end. Does anyone have any experience with this? If so what setting did you use between 26-30mm?

    Thanks,


    Taki
     
  2. Saiyan66

    Saiyan66 Stand your ground

    What year 600RR? Fork offset isn't typically a cause or fix of vague front end feel. Adjusting fork offset is most commonly done to help a bike either turn in better or help it to finish a turn better. Vague feel on the front can come from a lot of other places.

    1. Fork setup (springs, sag, compression, rebound)

    2. Chassis setup (swingarm angle, head angle, ride height)

    3. Tires (softer carcass tires give less feedback and some find it vague)

    4. Rider (your position on the bike and weight on the bars)
     
  3. cu260r6

    cu260r6 Well-Known Member

    Just curious, how would adjusting triple offset help finish a turn tighter?
     
  4. Saiyan66

    Saiyan66 Stand your ground

    Let me answer this with my limited knowledge of chassis setup. When you adjust offset, what you are really doing is increasing or decreasing trail independently of other variables. By doing this you can change the cornering characteristics of the bike. The Ducati 1098/1198 platform was notoriously in need of different triple clamps to improve its corner exit performance. This is 2nd hand knowledge related to me by well respected chassis tuners (Kyle Racing). I don't know the exact physics and engineering behind it.
     
  5. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    It's the more like your suspension is out in left field (very common) because that makes it harder to feel/understand what the bike is doing. Otherwise, a softer carcass would result in much slower lap times and we know that's not the case.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2022
  6. Dave Wolfe

    Dave Wolfe I know nuttin!

    Trail determines how much, and in which direction, pressure you need to put on your handlebars. Too little trail, and the bike will want to fall on its side when cornering, so you always need pressure on the outside bar. Too much, and you need pressure on the inside bar throughout the entire turn.
     
  7. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    Are your forks extended?

    More trail from the clamps might give a better feeling when running the forks at the stock length.
     
    JCW likes this.
  8. Saiyan66

    Saiyan66 Stand your ground

    Yes the lack of feedback is likely due to poor fork settings. I was just listing the possible contributors to lack of feedback at the front. Softer carcass tires certainly aren't slower, but they do offer less feedback than a stiff carcass tire. This being said, many riders prefer them over stiff carcass tires because they feel the stiff carcass gives them too much feedback.
     
  9. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

    My forks are modified so that they have longer travel than stock so I imagine they are extended. I am thinking I need to reduce my trail. I currently have the tops of the forks sitting almost flush with the triple clamp. Would sliding the forks up into the triple clamps reduce trail?
     
  10. Saiyan66

    Saiyan66 Stand your ground

  11. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Yes. However long they were extended over stock, raise them that much in the triples. This should bring the bike back into the zone.
    You may, then, want to unscrew the caps to relieve the springs. With no spring pressure, gently drop the front end to collapse the forks and turn them side-to-side to ensure no wheel/fender interference with radiators, headers, whatever.
     
  12. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    I raced them extended and near flush. 525mm fork height. That was with large rear tires (190/55 or 60 Dunlops) at Expert top 5 pace. The bike would not exit corners with the forks any shorter. I bought that setup off someone that crew chief'd for a very fast Honda racer here on the West Coast.

    I doubt you need to reduce fork height / trail to gain feedback. Many other parts of your setup could be way off, causing a vague feeling. But try whatever you'd like. It takes 5min to adjust fork height, so it's easy. Make large enough changes so that you can feel a difference. Be methodical and write everything down. Then pick what works best for you.
     
  13. Dave Wolfe

    Dave Wolfe I know nuttin!

    On fork height, you will notice a 4-6 mm change but it wont make the bike unrideable by any means. 2mm you probably wont feel a change.
     
    stangmx13 likes this.
  14. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

    Your 525 was from the top of the triple clamp where it meets the fork to the centre of the axle fully extended?
     
  15. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    Yep, from the top of the lower triple to the center of the axle.
     
  16. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member

    I took a measurement and I am at 526 or 527 so pretty much there. Ok I need to think this through more. Raising the rear ride height is an option I am considering also.
     
  17. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    Don't think it through too much. Change something, ride the bike, change it again, ride the bike, change something else, ride the bike. Repeat until you find what you like. "Guess and check" is a lot faster and you'll learn a ton more. Mulling this over for weeks and trying find the single perfect solution on the internet is slow and teaches you very little.

    For your next trackday, plan out 4-8 suspension changes and stick to it. Make a setup change in between each session (or in the middle of a session) and ask yourself "better, worse, or the same". Id do something like this...

    Session 1 & 2: Run the bike as-is to warm-up
    S3: +4 turns preload, come in half way and change to -4 turns. Keep the best one.
    S4: +2mm shock length
    S5: -2mm shock length. Keep the best shock length.
    S6: Explore another step of a setting you liked. For ex. if you liked -4 turns preload, try -8 turns. Or if -4 is <4 turns total, reduce fork height by 4mm.
    S7: Set everything to your favorites and confirm
     
  18. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    FWIW, when my son raced, our suspension tuner would have us slide the forks in the clamps 3mm one way or the other and it would make a noticeable difference, when dialing in the bike.
     
  19. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    As mentioned, take notes!

    Note your tire's dimensions, too. Between brands, the numbers on the sidewall don't necessarily mean they're the same height/width/profile as another brand with the same numbers. Measure the actual dimensions yourself, on a mounted/inflated tire.
    Tires can make big differences in the chassis tuning setup and, after all, they are a part of the suspension/geometry equation that should be included in your notes.

    Here's an example, the bike is running a 180/60 rear and not finishing turns. Try a 190/60.
    Numerically, you've added 3mm of rear ride height relative to the front. What the real world number will be is gonna be based on the tire measurements you've taken.
    Other ways to make rear ride height adjustments are shock length, linkage length, swingarm pivot position...all of which effect handling and traction.
    It's been my experience that trying to dial in the front can be a search for a needle in a haystack if the rear isn't in a small window of useable range. Get the rear right and the front pretty much doesn't care what you do with it; the front makes for the icing on the cake.

    Is suspension/chassis setup one of the Black Arts of motorcycling? You bet.
    If you're in the dark about what you're doing, you'll have no idea what effects you're causing to other aspects of your bike's handling. That's why you keep notes that include the effect of the change.
    Try not to make the notes overly complicated - use simple descriptive terms like harsh, loose, soft, wallowing, etc.
    Noting the location(s) relative to the track's layout that these effects manifest themselves puts them into perspective when making decisions on future changes - decreasing radius, increasing radius, sweeper, flick, esses, straight braking, trail braking, stutter bumps, rolling bumps, crests, gravity dips, turn entering/exiting, whatever...
    Also note the effort(s) required on your part to ride the bike and how that effort makes you feel.

    Reaping the rewards of self-education is directly proportional to the cultivation of the knowledge. Start sowin'. :D
     
  20. Taki

    Taki Well-Known Member


    Yes thanks, this sounds like good advice. It's time to test different settings, take notes and move on from there.
     

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