Help me understand why I keep tucking the front.

Bump the rear spring to a 100 for starters. The 95 is light for you. We usually run 1/2 step higher on Ohlins stuff than the spring calculators say. My kid is 115 pounds and when we went to a 90 his laptimes dropped and grip was improved.

You may also want to check the rebound side of the front end. If its too slow the front will lose grip under acceleration, same if its too fast.

 

Did anyone mention lack of talent yet?

 

No vids cameras make me nervous. Not on dunlops. SRJL XX pads. Was not on the brakes or at corner entry. Was on the throttle just after the apex. Yes I am slow but 38's for me was an improvement over 40's the last time I was there so I'm happy with it for now.

I really do think it's something I am doing (input wise) but the problem I am having is that I am not aware of what that is or how to tell I am doing it. Perhaps I need to invest in a school and be observed closely by someone who can provide insight on the spot. I just figured I would ask here first to see if anyone had any other thoughts.

 

I do think I will give that a try, can't know if it works better or worse till I do right.

 

I sort of thought that I covered that when I said I was to slow to have been over riding the front tire but for sure I'm new to racing and lack talent compared to many. I have no illusions of my skill level.

 

Did anything hard drag unweighting the front? Seems unlikely on acceleration unless just at the apex.

 

How is your BP? I don't want to start a whole shitstorm BP conversation, but if your BP is shit you will be using more lean angle that what should be required for the corner speed you are likely carrying for that 1:38 pace. Lean angle is finite, when you run out of it, you crash.

Aside from that, my first impression was that you were getting on the gas too hard initially and unloading the front causing it to lose grip.

Perhaps smooth out that technique, and maybe run a stiffer spring on the rear.

Do you tend to run wide on exits on the gas? Or do you have a hard time changing directions on the gas?

 

I am 99% sure no hard parts came in contact until after the front let go.

The whole thing took me by surprise in my head I was looking at my next few markers and was happy that I had made the pass, then the front went away and I was on the ground.

 

I have been told that my body position is decent but that was some time ago and it may have changed for all I know. Unfortunately I don't have any recent pictures to analyze but I will say that earlier in the weekend I felt wrong on the bike but as I got more comfortable i felt like i was positioned correctly and not crossed up.

I do not run wide on exit but I have had trouble changing directions on the throttle in tighter sections like turn 3 at NJMP

As for being on the throttle to hard or to early I suppose that could be part of it but I guess my thinking was as long as the rear is holding then keep twisting.

 

Another thought - if both of those corners are rights or lefts (i.e you are crashing on the same side), are the front and rear tires lined up properly? If the rear were slightly offset, getting on the gas while picking up the bike would cause a slight sideways pull.

I've not been to VIR, so if these two corners are not both the same direction, ignore me.

 

Beac they are different directions. Appreciate the thought though.

 

take your bike to a good suspension guy and have him push on it and feel it out.. He will likely be able to tell if something in the fork is broke, or the shock is out of nitrogen, etc.

i highly suggest getting a camera. It's impressive how much info can be gleaned about a rider, simply by watching a few laps of on board footage.

 

I think you may have part of your answer there. Technically, rear traction is not the only limit to how much acceleration you can dole out at a given moment/point on the track. Significant acceleration is usually accompanied by the act of standing up the bike (i.e., no longer turning as much). If you are still trying to turn with the bike at full lean and accelerate too hard, it's absolutely possible that you may be un-weighting the front enough to cause it to wash, without there being anything problematic with your suspension or set-up.

Of course, too-soft a rear suspension, too-hard a front suspension, not enough rebound damping on the front, and too abrupt a throttle hand are all factors that contribute towards this...

Riding-wise, change direction off-throttle, pick-up the throttle briefly and then stand the bike up (when finished changing direction) while accelerating hard.

In longer corners, you may be able to add acceleration through the turn at constant lean angle, but the acceleration would be quite gradual and not enough to un-weight the front, unless your bike/suspension set-up is really off.

 

Did u remove some lean angle before getting on the throttle (past maintenance throttle)? Was the bike pointed to the exit when u got on the gas or were you trying to holding it in the corner still?

 

The forks were recently refreshed prior to the incident and the shock was brand new (had the recall service performed on it before I ever rode on it as well).

As for the camera bit where would you suggest I mount it to get the most from it as far as feedback on my riding goes?

I really appreciate all of the help from everyone I'm learning a lot.

 

.. on boad vid would answer SOOOO many questions. just sayin Many riders think they do one thing, but the vid shows otherwise. One of the best investments any rider can make if looking to improve, and impress your buddies .. lol

edit:

i wouldn't waste time asking for replies on FB. Especially on a "trackday junkies" forum or something like that. Holy cow, the replies can be all over the place there. Post to YOUR fb page, and ask for replies from riders you trust. expert riders preferably.

forks were rebuilt, shock rebuilt, not by same person i assume, and who knows about the other bits (steering stem, swingarm bearings, etc) so yea.. have Thermosman, Metric Mike, CTR, GMD, etc. take a few minute look at the bike. May cost $50, they may do it for free.

 

HRC E.B and Stangmx13 I was on the throttle pretty decent while still at lean in the corner, just before the crash I had identified my exit, turn in and apex of the next corner and was starting to bring the bike up while continually feeding in the throttle. I wonder if the combination of bringing the bike up (steering input) and increasing the throttle is what did me in (as you both are suggesting I think). I suppose I had not thought of what I was really asking of the tire by doing that.

I guess my next question should be how do I know when to much is to much? I guess that just comes from experience but I sure would love to stop winding up on the ground in the process.

 

Losing the front on corner exit is odd. The first place I would look is at your brakes. Make sure there isn't something that's causing the brakes to drag.

Overfilled fluid, incorrect lever, faulty master cylinder, warped or dished rotors. dirty caliper pots, etc.

The next place I would look would be wheel bearings.

The last thing is suspension. soft rear spring, not enough ride height (unlikely), no front sag, extremely slow rebound...

If the suspension was that bad though, the bike would be sliding and wallowing everywhere. It would be a mess.

If it's not a mechanical issue, I agree with what Melka and Eddie are saying.

 

That is interesting. Because once I am pointed in the right direction, I drop my head while pushing on the outside bar to stand the bike up as I am rolling on the gas.

In other words, I do exactly what you just described on essentially every single corner and I have only lost the front 3 times in my life (one of those was in the pouring rain, and the other 2 were on the brakes)

I cant see you losing the front because of standing the bike up.