Car advice - B5 Audi S4 or E36 M3

So which is it? If it's dead nuts reliable why would you ever need to "work" on it. Maintenance not included in that work.

 

Well, of the two options I'd go M3 as long as its not the SMG, which is one of the worst transmissions ever made. 4.2L S4's should be avoided as much as the SMG in anything BMW made. Otherwise they are both money pit german cars. I deal with both brands on a daily basis as operations manager for a used dealership.

 

At the risk of exposing my choice of employer I can tell you the 2.7t in the S4 is a hoot. Big power available and much easier cheaper to buy HP. That block was designed as 2.5 diesel made into the 2.7 by stroking it. Crank has cross-drill main bolts through the sides of the block. Turbo`s must be replaced in pairs but there are thousands out there in the S4 and the Allroad with well over 100K producing no check engine light spec boost. High mileage engines maintained well still run strong. The 2.7 engine was rated at 370hp in Europe and other markets.. we had to settle for 250hp stock to meet emissions and overall fleet average mileage to keep the EPA happy. If you get the automatic the torque converters were a problem but most failed early on and have been replaced under warranty and are good for the distance afterwards. Cats were also a problem but there was an ECM upgrade to manage that piece well. The oil leak fixes are good if the upgraded parts were used from the dealer. As for the 4.2 it is a rock solid motor but its tight in there not much free air in the engine bay.. oil leaks and engine removal for many repairs. That engine has a PTO that drives the AC compressor, and other essentials.. also a bit nose heavy, the 2.7`s handle better.
PM me if you find one you like, I will run the VIN for you though the factory for warranty history, maintenance, etc..

 

I have an e36 M3 coupe -- 97. The 96 and earlier are more desirable as they are pre ODBII. The car handles like it's on rails but the power ain't all that. The bottom ends of the S54 blocks are bullet proof and mine has around 164k miles on it. The euro spec M3s of the same gen use 6 throttle bodies where the US gets an emissions throttled single TB design. It looses 60+ HP to the euro spec. Fun can and can be turbo'd pretty easily, but not something for the drag strip.

 

Have a 2000 B5 S4. They aren't too bad money wise if your do your own work. I've done pretty much everything myself, but no major engine work or turbos (knock on wood). That said, be prepared to want to murder the first German engineer you see if you do your own work. Following the manual step by step is the short cut.

Make sure the timing belt service has been done recently along with the cam seals. Upper control arms are typical on the suspension. I've also had an unusually high rate of wheel bearing failure. They aren't too hard to replace assuming you have access to a hydraulic press. There is a ton out there for DIY. Search Audizine forums and Audiworld tech articles.

Mine is not the best in the world, but I try to keep up on it. It's nice that my brother's company used it for prototype exhaust work. Free down pipes and catback! It sounds really sweet just puttering around on the street from a 2nd gear roll on. It's also the longest I've owned a car, going on 8.5 years now. That's saying something.

My only complaint recently is the lack of room for passengers. Perhaps think about a C5 A6 with the 2.7T 6MT and dump some money into making it look and go nice.

 

I would pick the S4 over the e36, but an e30 or e46 over the S4.

Cool vid showing the history of the M3 series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u9lGPSrNt0&list=TLuBqVyjYh_JpifbAMhiomhEvITvqpzL_Q

 

I'm looking for an E36 M3 to pick up right now... wouldn't touch a TT Audi with a 10ft pole. Coming off an ALH TDI.

 

I said mine is a track car only, so kinda like your reliable GSXR or R6 that gets; rearsets,exhaust,suspension,PC,bodywork,brakes,etc.
all stuff you can handle in your garage.
E36's have some faults and some areas that need attention to make them reliable, but most as noted are small, up to structural bracing/welding.
If my 2.7 Twin Turbo needs ANYTHING, i drive 2.5 hrs each way to New German Performance,,,,,,and I'm a fukin mechanic...

 

I would think you could find a low millage, non-beater example by combing Hemmings or other high end car Websites. I bet a lot of well off folks bought them as 3rd vehicles, only to leave it in the garage when the wife complained about the harsh ride and manual tranny.

Considering the retail prices, I can't see any original owners being that rough on the car. 2nd/3rd owners are another story.


If you don't need to get laid, I would look at a TDI Golf, and talk to some shops that develop chips and such. The torque on that car is unbelievable.

Just got a new GTI for the mrs; wish i could have talked her into the TDI. The diesel had way more useable power; would love to try it with a stage 1-2 chip. GTI does have much better interior though.

 

Thanks guys for all the info.Should I stay away from S4's with stock turbos? I'm having good luck finding some decent Audi's on CL. A few sketchy ones here and there but I found one near DC im checking out tomorrow.

 

You know that there's a good chance that the GTD is coming to the US when the new Golf rolls out to the US sometime next year.

 

I've got an '01 S4 Avant and love it. Really good ones are out there but you have to look long and hard. Lots of Stage 3 rockets on the market. Be careful of the quality of the mods and how they interface with each other. Mega problems might be why they are for sale. 2.7 twin turbo motor is solid. Bad turbos are due to hot rodders and oil that is to heavy. OEM spec is 0w40. Suspension isn't designed for the drag strip and gets many miles of normal use. Forums have some good experience and knowledge but alot of uninformed opinion too.

 

If even the older 4.2 S4s are out of your price range, how will you be able to keep up with the maintenance/repair cost of any of these beasts?

In that kind of a situation, I question the wisdom of buying any of them in the first place.

 

How much a year do you think I'll be putting in a S4 with say 100K plus miles? I'm only hesitant on Audis because they are kind of new to me. I'v never owned one I'll settle for a S4 because I'll never have a S1. I would like over time to have a sweet DTM replica or something and track the hell out of it. I'd keep it forever. And the same with the M3 but the S4 seems like a lot of fun.
If I could spend around maybe 5k a year on the Audi I could live comfortable and still save a good amount of money. I do work for a friends dealership sometimes and he specializes in Porsche, Benz, Ferrari and stuff I'v made some good friends over time with the mechanics I worked with and if they keep there word they wont break my balls, whatever I go with I'm going to pound some chick in the browneye on the hood.

 

I had an E36 for 5 years and had very little go wrong with it, just the normal tail/brake light stuff.