choppy idle/off idle response to 3k - bazzaz ?

got a 08 gsxr 750, bazzaz controller with o2 sensor, and headgasket

the bike seems to idle a bit choppy, from ~1500 to ~3000 rpms, almost as if it were missing. the head pipes are all about the same temp. for example, if you just crack the throttle enough for the R's to slowly rise(like probably less than 5%), it ramps up fairly predictably/slow, but just seems choppy. about the point where it crosses 3000, it really seems to smooth out and the R's pick up more quickly.

it really runs pretty good on the track, it got me wondering about the bazzaz fuel settings. i've used the self mapping a few times. interestingly, the fuel map shows empty cells from 0 through 2500. it seems an odd coincidence that those cells are empty, and that is where it seems to stumble off idle a bit.


i'm wondering:
-what kind of bazzaz values others are seeing in that rpm range ?
-is that the normal bazzaz mapping behavior, in that it doesn't try to map below 3k ?
-would you tune for an AFR target in that range, or would you just tune it to idle nicely ?
-any alternative guesses about a seemingly choppy low rpm behavior ? TPS, air leak, camaro cams, mismatched injectors, etc ?


occasionally, CHEC is shown after turning the bike off via the kill switch, but no code is thrown (c00). From the manual, it seems like this and doesn't seem related to the idle issue:

The ignition switch is turned ON, and the engine stop switch is turned OFF. In this case, the speedometer does not receive any signal from ECM, and the panel indicates “CHEC”. If CHEC is indicated, the LCD does not indicate the
trouble code. It is necessary to check the wiring harness between ECM and speedometer couplers.The possible cause of this indication is as follows:
Engine stop switch is in OFF position. Side-stand/ignition inter-lock system is not working. Ignition fuse is burnt.

 

yeah, the chec on the dash is normal. it should happen after about 5 seconds of turning the kill switch off.

Usually you don't need to worry about tuning that low in the rpm range, but occasionally it becomes necessary, as seems to be in your case. You should go to a shop with a dyno and have it mapped for that area, and idle will sound smooth after you adjust it properly. It will usually be somewhere around 13.7.

Also, you need to pinch off the AIS when tuning.

 

thx for the info skinny. yeah, with the cells empty it seems rich, so i'll try putting in some negative numbers. as well, i haven't sync'd the TB's, so it's entirely possible things are just rough in that area, low rpm. doing a brief fuel experiment, it certainly affects the throttle response from that low rpm(going rich or lean), but it doesn't really seem to change the choppy nature of things.

it's just strange how non-linear the response is...as it crosses the 3k rpm, it just smooths out noticeably. it's not a huge deal, just thought i'd ask the knowledge-base. anyone know if the bazazz intentionally doesn't automap that low rpm section ? i'm not racing wsb, so i'm not too concerned, but it does seem like there ought to be a simple fix.

 

Like I said before, you need to get it on a dyno, so you can get the right AFR, and it will smooth out.

 

same problem

i have the same issues with my 06 R6. breaking up in the low end and real choppy idle. didnt start doing it untill after i crashed at Carolina a few months ago though.. I have the Bazzaz on my bike as well and am thinking the problem is somewhere with that because all other attemped fixes do not correct the problem. i have even disconnected the Bazzaz but it still runs the same so i am stuck.. have you had any luck figureing your issues?? thanks

 

With those model R6's, you need to make sure after you crash that the throttle bodies did not come off the intake boots. The air box can still hold the TB in place, but you will have an air leak, especially at lower rpm, and off throttle. The choppy idle isn't too uncommon, but can still be fixed.

You may have another problem that came up during/after your crash too.

 

Andy get a Bazazz or Ivan's TRE. The computer reads gears 1-4 and retards timing at low rpms. That means trailing throttle ( like midpoint T7 at Sears) surges badly off on off on. Install the TRE, it goes away. You can't tune it out. The Ivan's TRE just sends a signal to the ECU that you are in 5th gear always. Worked on my 600

 

Thanks for the info guys.. much appreciated.. im goin up to wrench on it friday morning and see what happens

 

any other sugestions?? i am turning anywhere i can right now, i checked and double checked and the TB issue is not the problem. since i was thinking it might be something with the Bazzaz, i removed the system and the bike is all hooked up stock and still runs like crap. my mechanic is even stumped right now. race in 3 weeks, to bad i dont have a fresh motor to slide in huh..

 

Did you try the TRE? I just ordered mine from Ivan and i was hoping to hear that you fixed your issue. I have similiar thing happening on my '06 GSXR750.

I am gonna do flips if the TRE solves the issue or helps it considerably.

Let us know...

Scotty J.

 

under the bazzaz diagnostics tab does everything look ok? did u calibrate your throttle (not sure if that would help)

 

SquidCityCyclesHere: How can I help me?

FoolSmartAzzCompressModeHere: Yeah, I'm confused about my stumble on the bottom.
SCCH: Did you try base setting with any piggy fuel box like adding an 02 sensor to the closed loop system?
FSCH: You mean I should have installed a fuse to the hot side of my piggy boxes so I can return to base?
SCCH: Yes. Because you remove ground to your pig station, is not the hot side still hooked to ground by the bike's injector wire you used?
FSCH: Yes. I see now. I need to remove the (+) side of my pig and try to see if the stumble goes away?
SCCH: Yes. That way, you eliminate the pig station out of the loop, now was it an electrical pulse not welcomed like the map used? I don't know. I am guessing over the phone knee way you sneak up on a stumble.
FSCH: OK, I'm going to try to see if the stumble is removed, I'll try running all stock out of the box.
SCCH: You call me back you can't find that stumble to clear is azz near ass your phone knee lies you cannot get out dis loop pit tea duped again are we? (((CLICK)))!



(((RING _RING)))

FSCH: How Can I.... Oh no, not you again!
SCCH: I van thinkinking, I'm going to short out my bike and limp the ECU.
FSCH: That little guy will just give you a bottom end jolt of a rude ride, you slam back to no codes> Will the HP return.
SCCH: Will it take the stumble out?
FSCH: WATT stumble? Bikes out of the crate do not run like a stumble leana youah change the recipe?
SCCH: I have pork on my pizzzAzz whatever that name is, yes. And I van thinkinking of...
FSCH: ... No you haven't been thinking at all. Are your throttle bodies sunk like never before yes or no?
SCCH: No.
FSCH: Rum beer, I have to use some whacked out language you do not comprehend that short to ground read in the factory shop manual. You will get an ear full you repeat the 5th is that I take the 5th.
SCCH: zOn no, not a CSI goes backwards we go again....
FSCH: You think you'll read about this shit in ruderacingworld? Not a chance you want to beat what they think are the best ragAZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz me yet.

FOOL is the SPARK of Compressing your 5th gear fallacy all up your FSM. So far I have collected 41.5 website trophy passwords, dis place likes to delete my tech like I give a shit you remain clueless is that call? I more banned myself from those places, I have to listen to either A FALLACY OR THE FSM explain the proper way that code operates. Right out of the gate I keep seeing that 5th gear fallacy, someone better explain where, how, and all that information they are spreading is incorrect information. If I can back that statement up against any other practical event you might think it does, who threw away the shop manual? I will blow you away is take your trophy > wera. :down:


:tut: I can see your tuneup from ear if only time killed my tune is hop on and prove it. Better yet, ride my rude ride, to know how to get close to a tune I am not even close to a tune. Amazing bikes these days are not even close out of the crate; there is way too much to tune out still.

Before you come back, explain or attempt to explain to the group, how you are about to beat the next guy in a limp mode; I have got you beat right now with my 6th gear set in stone in the FSM. If you open that code page, find what wire that 'Limpiece' will be installed on, tell me those 3 variables on the side bar, where the abstract reads: >>> You short my wire from stock, I am going to limp your bike you think you have some kind of tune?

Sync the stumble out of the bottom. Idle on up > is a stumble. Rich/lean maps on the bottom > are stumbles.

1. What is Compression?
2. Where are the sync lines?
3. Where you tune the stumble out would be the low speed screws.
4. Where as a code; is a limp duplicater of the same fuel trim. I flip the tre, I see a copy fuel trim, watching the tre toggled on, then toggle off = SAME FUEL MAP [read at the wide-band 02 meter] - Quicker snap to advance ~ whatever the abstract of timing eliminator means, it means the code limps the advance with less HP O/A. Remove the tre, you have the world's fastest bike back > Out of the crate. Make sense?

OK, some of it you caught. Check compression first is a poor idle, bad stumble off idle. Set the sync if compression is within 10%-12% of each others numbers. The closer the numbers, the smoother the sync pulse.

Stay Loose, Howeee do it on dis end.

 

i once had same problem.. i had the self mapping applied double.. and got screwd up fuel map. start with clean map and it will be fine.