New to this board and I figured this is one of the best places to get some decent advice. I'm not a racer (maybe one day), just a trackday guy. This was my first year on the track and they were all done with STT at Mid-Ohio. I run a bone stock SV650S. It could certainly use some suspension work, but this being my first year, I decided to forego it and try to ride around any issues if necessary. As I think back about my time there, I have some questions about the track that have constantly plagued me. My main problem was coming out of Thunder Valley and into the Carousel. Exiting 11 in third, I could get up to fourth before 13. This is where I think I lost some decent time. I would drop to third on the entry, but I always felt like I was scrubbing off too much speed. Looking back, I think it can be taken much faster, but as a newbie, that's tough to gauge. Any tips on the entry? My other problem was getting through the keyhole. Watching the advanced guys (I'm in intermediate), they're getting through much faster. The issue there is the entry is uphill, but the exit downhill. Right when I want to open the throttle after entry, the track seems to fall away. Is there more grip there? Is it just a rookie/experience thing? Other than that, it felt pretty good for a first timer. I have some problems with eight, but that's just an odd corner for everyone I think, and I still need to open the throttle sooner exiting 11. I should tell you as well that I did have an instructor follow me for a few laps. He said I did "very well," but that didn't help me much. He offered tips on positioning my feet properly (which did help), but I needed more on corner entry/exits. He was on a R6 though, so perhaps I was holding him up. I'd really like to find someone who's good on an SV so I can better gauge my technique...
Carousel: Suspension is going to play a part because the"fast line" apexes (and the apex is about 70% through the corner) on a dip that can play games with you. Common mistakes are trying to take the entry too tight.. sounds like this might be an issue for you. Set up later for the previous corner (most turn in too soon here) and turn in later which will have you set up a little wider (riders left) coming into the Carousel. This allows you to carry a lot more speed and possibly pull 4th. This is a GREAT passing zone because if you carry more speed you can go outside of the guys who are tighter (and slower) on the inside and then you have the line inside of them as you drive into the final left turn onto the S/F straight. Make sense? Keyhole: You observations are correct but you may not realize just how much of an uphill and down hill you are really dealing with and the off-camber at the keyhole exit. On a 600 I use very little brake going into the keyhole.. I nail a downshift just prior to tipping it right into the chicane (slipper clutch on the Kawasaki ZX6R and Aprilia RSV-1000 if I'm on it helps here) and this combined with the turn and uphill grade means I am trail braking as I tip the bike in right but not very agressively. There are several lines through this turn and it takes a lot of practice to nail this corner consitantly. BTW, thanks for riding with us and feel free to look me up at Mid-Ohio, I'd enjoy working with you.
monte is the man. he's pretty much going to give the best answer you can get. i have the same problems as you and unfortunately now have to wait the entire off season before i can see if any of my theories will work... but im pretty confident after playing it all back countless times i know when and where my mistakes were.
Edit.. corrected in bold. Carousel: Suspension is going to play a part because the"fast line" apexes (and the apex is about 70% through the corner) on a dip that can play games with you. Common mistakes are trying to take the entry too tight.. sounds like this might be an issue for you. Set up later for the previous corner (most turn in too soon here) and turn in later which will have you set up a little wider (riders left) coming into the Carousel. This allows you to carry a lot more speed and possibly pull 4th. This is a GREAT passing zone because if you carry more speed you can go outside of the guys who are tighter (and slower) on the inside and then you have the line inside of them as you drive into the final left turn onto the S/F straight. Make sense? Keyhole: You observations are correct but you may not realize just how much of an uphill and down hill you are really dealing with and the off-camber at the keyhole exit. On a 600 I use very little brake going into the keyhole.. I nail a downshift just prior to tipping it LEFT IN the chicane (slipper clutch on the Kawasaki ZX6R and Aprilia RSV-1000 if I'm on it helps here) and this combined with the turn and uphill grade means I am trail braking as I tip the bike in right but not very agressively. There are several lines through this turn and it takes a lot of practice to nail this corner consitantly. BTW, thanks for riding with us and feel free to look me up at Mid-Ohio, I'd enjoy working with you.
Rookie, I am in the same boat. I am new to track days with this being my first year. I did six track days at Mid-Ohio and made my way in to intermediate. But I still need a ton of improvement. I struggle with corner speed. Going into the carosuel I always ran a wide line. It felt like I could come out of the corner on the throttle a litte better. But I had an instructor tell me that when you come out of Thunder you want to stay next to the grass and hug the rumble strip through the carosuel. I followed him for a few laps and for him it worked pretty well. But for me I had people pass me on the outside and then stay in the inside with the better line going on to the short straight. The keyhole for me is alot of fun but I still don't know what I am doing. I had my first runoff in the chicane. I tried a much tighter line with a little more speed and couldn't make it. The fun thing for me is that I have been able to run alot of lines through the keyhole. I know the perfered line but I passed a few people on the outside and still felt comfortable. I will being try everything Monte has said this spring. Rookie what color is your SV? I remember seeing a blue SV and a red one at almost all of the events I attended. I ride a Buell 1125r. To bad we have to wait until spring to try out Monte's advise.
Hey White, I may very well have been the blue SV you saw. I was in intermediate my last two sessions, so we probably ran around together at times. I do remember seeing a couple of Buell's there, can't mistake that sound!
We'll have to meet up next spring. All six time we went to Mid-O my dad and I would always meet some new. We met alotof good people. Kirby and Rick are good people.
Well Hi Monte! I will definitely seek out your help next season, but you are a hard guy to find at times! I understand though, as I worked as an intern last year at Mid-Ohio HQ in Dublin and Mark had me do a few things for you guys! Thanks for the advice too! Your assessment of the carousel makes perfect sense. And after watching the AMA race over and over on my DVR, I noticed all the fast guys were taking this line you speak of. I did notice that bump to, but I wasn't too bothered by it (granted my corner speed was likely quite low). Surprisingly, I think I was doing everything approaching the keyhole based on your advice, I was simply scrubbing off too much speed on entry. I was wondering why so many had their knee down there on entry and I was no where close. Makes sense that they were carrying much more entry speed. What can I say, I'm still trying to get a feel for how far a bike can be leaned over before simply giving out. I still have yet to use "all" my tire on the rear of the SV (which I was told is hard anyway being a 160).
Sounds good to me, send me a PM when you know you'll be out there! I think I'll have a lap timer for next year too, but I'll be a little scared to look at it lol :wow:
I did 3 days with STT at mid ohio and loved it. I am only novice though. I can't wait for the next season to start. The instructors help out a lot and I have a lot of learning to go through.
One thing I might suggest to those of you with only one track in your repertoire... Try going to another track. It's very easy to get focused on trying to get the perfect lap on one track, but each track is going to teach you different things about riding your motorcycle to its (and your) potential. I started out doing several days at Putnam, but plateaued. Then I went to a TD at Firebird (AZ) in the rain, and learned what it felt like to slide the bike around a bit. Mid-Ohio taught me how to put a series of corners together. Summit Point taught me how to brake. But going to each of these tracks improved my riding dramatically, because I was forced to work on my riding in different ways than I was used to.
It sounds counter-intuitive, but you should try a lower gear through each of these corners. I gained a lot of time in both carousel and keyhole by dropping from 3 to 2. You'll have more guts for better acceleration exiting the corners. For the carousel, click up to 3rd just as your entering 15 (lefty) to the front straight.
I differ from Monte a bit. The keyhole and carousel are very similar in that you enter both of them tight (with your knee almost on the grass) and as you approach mid-corner, you let the bike drift out to mid-track, and then bring it back tight and throw your knee down onto the curbing. Get in in there tight and fast, drift out slightly, square it off and get out of there. Of course, your results may vary.
Eddie's been around Mid-Ohio a time or two! His is a race line which protects his position and takes advantage of anyone running wide (he's set up for the pass).. mine is more of a fun line. That's the difference between racing and fun time. BTW.. I'm usually having fun when Eddie goes under me or around me.
Well you're generally moving around pretty quick yourself. As judged by my last-minute-late-breaking-rear-end-stepping out-running-to-the-edge-of-the-track-I-didn't-know-that-was-Monte-pass down itno T6.
