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Can we talk about Masters?

Discussion in 'General' started by APO2112, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. ScubaSteve666

    ScubaSteve666 Member

    Well there is novice contingency, as well. Don’t have to set records for that. Maybe GNF is different, which I can’t attest to yet.

    No, not dismantle SS classes. I don’t think you’re even paying attention, honesty. Implement at least a podium check, and you’ll likely see a change. At a minimum, you’ll stop seeing posts like this, even if the grids are as legal as you say.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  2. bpro

    bpro Big Ugly Fat F*****

    I'll have what he's smoking....
     
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator


    So what contingency are you talking about? Please stop the generalizations and be specific if you're going to make complaints like this. I can't fix things if people keep beating around the bush. The comment I made was about riders setting lap records on legal bikes.

    I am paying attention - what podium? The imaginary one? We don't have podiums for CSS Novice which is what you're complaining about.

    I will never ever stop seeing posts like this no matter what I do. Someone like you will just find something else that doesn't remotely affect their own racing program and bitch about it. Just part of the deal.
     
  4. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    A question in jest from you, but a question worthy of actual consideration if you ask me.

    Entries don't lie, the majority of riders in the SBK classes are the same as SS. Drop the name, merge them and just run a double header every race day, and a quadruple header on the former double header weekends.

    600-E race 2x a day
    600-N race 2x a day

    Rinse and repeat for 750 (another debatable outdated class) and the 1000's.

    The only things that quantify for superstock are all lazy tech stuff...AKA, visual. Anyone that's buying an advantage is buying it with MOTOR, not a brake master cylinder. So if you're not going to pursue that (admittedly, most won't at the club level because the cost of protest and work involved for ALL parties just really isn't worth it), why even pretend at this point?

    Edit: Actually I'll argue that on some given weekends, there's more slow pokes (me) signing up for SBK over SS because you have the ringer riders chasing contingency in superstock.
     
    APO2112 likes this.
  5. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    42 unique riders in V8 this year, 24 unique riders in the 600 National points.
     
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    V8 runs every weekend we run, the National class has only run 4 rounds
     
  7. ScubaSteve666

    ScubaSteve666 Member

    Just to throw it out there, you have Honda and One-X with novice contingencies. Just the two off the top of my head. I’m just asking that someone checks the bikes that get top 3 in a superstock class. Or that they have X amount of time to report to wherever with their bike.

    I’ve never advocated a rule change, just to clarify. Just that people follow them. And I guess ultimately it doesn’t matter since others don’t contest it. Maybe next season I’ll run superstock classes and give it a go. Then it wouldn’t just be pointless complaining.


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  8. pickled egg

    pickled egg Tell me more

    I recall chatter about SS compliance checks for airbox and air filters, velocity stacks, shower injectors, and JB Welded F2 PowerCommanders.

    When cheating becomes endemic, it’s nice to see the org hang the cheaters with all the rope they’ve been given.
     
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I still don't get it - why don't you think the riders should protest the cheaters? Why should we have to go and track down the top three? And once we do and find they're legal which is what happens every single time we do this kind of thing - what about 4th and 5th and down the line? Because - and I and absolutely serious here - that is exactly what the next complaints always are. Every single time. "Oh you just didn't go far enough back!"

    It's pointless complaining when you assert that all but 20 percent of a given field is a cheater when that isn't true. It's pointless when the OP is not willing to help do anything about it but post here admittedly to do nothing but start shit.
     
  10. ToofPic

    ToofPic Well-Known Member

    Is it Winter time already?
     
    fastfreddie likes this.
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    We've checked off and on over the years, some more regularly, some less so. What we tend to find is more accidental cheating the purposeful and honestly can't remember the last time anything we found in a teardown we instigated would have actually changed the on track results. Our races that are actually that close are by riders who aren't cheating or doing it better than we'll ever catch :crackup:
     
  12. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    You're right, there wasn't, just you defending the stock windscreen for years and years on here (with no legit justifiable reason) until eventually you changed the rulebook - and hell didn't freeze over afterall.

    Squeezing the fairing ears to make the screen taller.... :crackup::crackup::crackup::crackup::crackup::crackup:

    Not a stock windscreen made to fit a bike in the last 10 years that could be squeezed enough to match a double bubble or Corsa that wouldn't explode before it got to anywhere near the profile of a DB or corsa.
     
  13. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Huh? Have you forgot this is the Beep? :D
     
  14. Wheel Bearing

    Wheel Bearing Professional low sider

    I'm forgetting all of that because you keep referencing a time that was over 2 decades ago. Economy changes, average disposable income for your average club racer is changing (and not for the better). To keep riding on the coat tails of "yesterday", aka, before 85% of the riders that make the entire Moto America grid was born is just...dated thinking.
     
    APO2112 likes this.
  15. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    CHAPTER NINE , 4. SUPERSTOCK: q) Clutch may be changed to a slipper clutch. Clutch fiber and metal plates may be changed to aftermarket. Clutch Springs may be changed. This doesn't address installing a standard clutch on an OEM slipper clutch equipped machine nor does "Clutch spring" specify the spring(s) for a slipper mechanism.
    That "spring" allowance has always meant, to me anyway, clutch pressure springs, like Barnett. If it now includes slipper mechanism springs, I think that distinction should be made so we(I) don't make an assumption that takes the original meaning of the rule to include more than what's been the historical intent of the rule.


    CHAPTER NINE, 4. SUPERSTOCK: l) Steel braided or Kevlar brake lines may be used. Brake pads may be changed. Rear rotors may be modified however must still remain functional. Front rotors may be replaced but the replacement must be the stock rotor for that machine or 100% the exact same as the stock rotor including material. Stock rotors are prohibitively expensive. If Vesrah doesn't make a legal replacement, none exist. For that matter, where are the Vesrah rotors? Does anyone have a link? What's the point of mentioning 100% exact same replacement rotors other than stock if they don't exist or aren't available?

    I don't question rules to annoy you, I question them for clarification.

    CHAPTER NINE, 4. Last sentence: If it does not mention you CAN do it, you CAN NOT.

     
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I haven't done it in the last ten years so you could very well be correct. Then again the doubles have been legal for longer than that. I absolutely did it in 98 and 99. The rule didn't specify stock screens, it specified stock dimensions. Plenty of aftermarket screens out there the entire time that rule was in place that allowed for flexibility enough to get the wind over the riders. I'm always floored at how many people just can't think outside the box enough to figure out a method that isn't "I must buy this aftermarket part there is no other way"....
     
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Clutch springs absolutely covers the slipper springs, they are a clutch spring. The historical intent is any spring that is part of the clutch. Just because you're old doesn't mean the rule needs rewording because you remember when there were only one type of spring involved with the clutch.

    It covers the slipper to a non slipper. You quoted it - CHAPTER NINE, 4. Last sentence: If it does not mention you CAN do it, you CAN NOT.

    Stock rotors are not prohibitively expensive - and seriously you raced fucking Ducati Superbikes built by Ferracci, you don't get to bitch about expense :crackup: Don't know or care if Vesrah is the only one who is or was selling stock spec rotors, the rule is there if someone else is willing to do it. All they did was source them from the people who make them for the OEMs. Other than that there is a very good chance that some other rotor from another model or even another OEM could fit the rules and be legal - lots of parts out there are bought by all the the Japanese OEM's from one vendor. Or in the case of Ducati and some of the special edition Japanese models, you can get the Brembo rotors they use from Brembo, doesn't have to be from Ducati. The rule gives you options. Up to you to use them or not. Up to the aftermarket to give more options or not. But the rules is quite clear and easy to understand.
     
  18. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

    Huh, never tried have people ride the "coat tails of yesterday" and compare things? I was explaining that Mongo wasn't the issue and that's the way it was. BUT yet many here are still bitching about things that happened long ago? WTF
     
  19. motoracer1100

    motoracer1100 Well-Known Member

    I absolutely love it when people assert that Mongo isn’t paying Attention.... :crackup::rolleyes:
     
  20. Robby-Bobby

    Robby-Bobby Steeltoe’s Daddy

    I LOVE when these pop up saying there’s no performance advantage to running aftermarket.

    if you can’t fee the difference, then you aren’t running at the front.

    they’re illega because they absolutely are a performance advantage.
     

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