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New tax plan.....

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Robby-Bobby, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    Deficit and debt will continue to rise regardless of who is in power unless someone gets the backbone to address the spending side of the equation. Time will tell if Trump is worse than Obama. Barry set the bar pretty high...
     
  2. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    It depends. Provided all the pet projects of the dysfunctional GOP are taken care of, big business benefits, the wealthy win, and the lobbyists win, it will pass.

    The middle class will get screwed and foot the bill.

    I wouldn't get to used to the idea of GOP being in power. I wont last past 2018 and Trump will be four and done. I don't think he can rely on them running Clinton again. They might put up a human next time and he is toast.
     
  3. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Once again, the GOP is working hard to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
     
    SnacktimeKC likes this.
  4. Dits

    Dits Will shit in your fort.

    It's become the same song and dance and it's getting old.

    The Republicans are looking out for the ultra wealthy and the corporations under the somewhat mistaken idea that any savings to them will trickle down to the middle class.

    The Democrats, although once the champions of the working man and the middle class, are no longer concerned with anything other than pandering to the marginalized.

    The rest of us in the middle are the ones who have to bear the burden that both political parties have saddled us with.
     
  5. dsapsis

    dsapsis El Jefe de los Monos

    Maybe Kocher can find some subjects here for his bucket list. :crackup:
     
  6. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    Agreed and I see a violent uprising of the middle as the only solution. Sadly, the middle is too busy feeding the top and bottom to actually do anything other than vote for a charlatan and hope for the best.
     
  7. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Trump had potential, but he has very quickly been reigned in by the old guard.
    The old guard thinks they are protecting their jobs, but it won't work out that way.
     
  8. Orvis

    Orvis Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately I've developed the same feeling with the Trump administration that I did with Obama. When Obama was elected I figured, "what the fuck, maybe he will be ok." That idea died within two months. Along comes Trump. I thought, "what the fuck, maybe he's going to be ok." Here we are past that magic two months and the idea is dying. God help us. :(
     
  9. turtlecreek

    turtlecreek Well-Known Member

    unfortunately, we have never paired fiscally responsible SPENDING with tax cuts. we need to get out of the habit of asking how the government is going to pay for a tax cut (sic) and in the habit of asking why every single solitary penny is being spent and where the money is coming from to pay for it.
     
  10. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Zero basis budgeting.

    It would be a good idea, even if they only did one department a year for the next 20 years. It's probably too large a task to accomplish all at once, but we do need to start somewhere.

    Similar with the tax code. Start with a tax on revenue, no deductions. Them work from there to put in what still needs to be there to make things work.
     
    turtlecreek likes this.
  11. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    That's where your missing the point. To buy the same as you got, you now need 1.2 Million. So money gained. Zero.
     
  12. Dits

    Dits Will shit in your fort.

    For the first time in a long time we had a candidate who stood tall in the coal fields of West Virginia. In the corn fields of the Midwest. Promising jobs in the dirty south.

    What a let down. Business as usual.
     
  13. XFBO

    XFBO Well-Known Member

    You're kidding right?
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  14. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Sadly, I think he is not.
     
  15. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    No..I'm not kidding.

    I've heard that, "I paid $50K for my house, and now it's worth $500K" I made $450K argument before. Faulty logic.

    Rather than explain....Here: https://www.moneyunder30.com/why-your-house-is-not-an-investment

    I like the term "Trapped Equity" the author uses here. It's value...yes..all mostly due to inflation...and the perceived growth in value of your home is trapped into buying your next home.
    So you paid less for the shelter you have, and it's market value looks GREAT after X years of living there....but, you sell it and have no shelter...so you must use the now liquidated money from the sale of your dwelling to aquire a new dwelling you have to purchase at the current market value that also increased in value, mostly due to inflation. So, I'm not sure how that's a good investment.

    I will be working to pay my house off as early as I can...only when a house is paid off, and yo have no monthly payment, is a house a good value.

    My brother's an accountant in Minnesota, when Mom died and left us her Estate to split 50/50, he used his half to buy his place up by Lake Itasca in cash....and start his own business. THAT is a good investment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  16. turtlecreek

    turtlecreek Well-Known Member

    It can definitely be an investment. a long term one. I have to have shelter as you noted. I can rent, in which case I own nothing, am subject to cost increases outside of my control, get no tax breaks, etc. or i can buy, in which case i will end up with an asset with real value to pass on to my kids. The examples you use, of always having a mortgage and moving up to the next level, aka, keeping up with the joneses, isn't a must...its a choice. it doesn't take away from the fact that by buying my shelter vs renting it, i can easily end up in a better position through my "investment". again, while your point may be valid in some situations, it is definitely not always right.
     
    XFBO likes this.
  17. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    :stupid:The only time the "investment" angle seems to work out is if you are one of the first to move from someplace like Southern California with insanely expensive housing to someplace like Texas with relatively cheap housing and purchase a home with cash. Even then the actual gain is much lower than your perceived gain because people tend to not look at maintenance, property taxes, etc. when making those calculations.
     
  18. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    Guess you didn't read the article. Your "Carring costs" far outweigh your gain. Your gain is simply an indication of inflation, not increased value. The dollars you used in the initial purchase of your home are worth more than the dollars received at the time of sale.

    Yes, agreed I guess, that it is an asset when passed on to your kids that can be liquidated by them. BUT....You're gone at that point and it's of NO value to YOU at that point.

    And getting back to the carrying costs involved. If you don't have those, and you only rent, you have those carrying costs to invest in mutual funds or stocks, and those have had a higher rate of increase/return over time of 12% where as if you track home prices over the same 100 years, have only gone up %1.
     
  19. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    Here's another: http://nomadcapitalist.com/2016/10/14/buying-a-house-bad-investment/

    Maybe this will help..he lays it all out in a nice bullet format and adds it all up for you at the bottom so you can see what you laid out to get back maybe half of what you pay out in the 30 years it would take to pay your house off, if you just make all the payments over the life of the mortgage.

    "My house is a great investment" is old thinking...post WWII "The American Dream" shit. My Dad bought into it hook line and sinker.

    When we were in our mid 20's we were on a road trip with my parents. Dad's in the back seat telling us all about how Savings Bonds were one of the best investments you could get. We both started laughing. I looked back at him, pointed to my brother and said, "You realize he's a CPA with a degree in Finance right?"
     
  20. auminer

    auminer Renaissance Redneck

    Wow... some of the ""investment advice"" bandied about on this site the past couple-few weeks. :(

    It's no wonder so many people end up indigent/working poor.
     
    XFBO likes this.

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