Real Texas Shoot out

No.

Its whether or not a PD should have what MADE him dead.

I'd have no issue if they used a .30cal. Or even a .460 Weatherby.

 

Sorry...

I don't see a problem here. The end result is really all that counts, especially in a case like this.

 

Some people just wanna bitch.

 

Suppose they come for you? You OK if they use a Hellfire on your house?

 

Not yet

 

CE II is in Texas and he's got one, probably a couple

 

If you gotta go, then I guess that would be a pretty cool way for it to happen. Do I get to put my critters in a safe place first?

 

I don't care about a .50 cal.

This bothers me more than a caliber.....and it's not so much the vehicle, as much as the mind-set.
https://youtu.be/IwGjOY_Cq7s

"Taking Enemy fire"
Enemy? He isn't in the army, he is a cop. Who da heck is the "Enemy?

Who would you use this for?
"We have a lot of constitutionalists" "People that stockpile weapons and ammunition"
You believe in the constitution, and now you are the enemy?
Gun collections are now stockpiles?

More than anything, I'm just curious, when did the constitution become a bad word?

 

Are you sure that you're not putting the small number of questionable police actions onto the shoulders of all police depts? Try to remember that the police have the responsibility of enforcing the law of the land. When individuals go off the deep end, like the guy in this Dallas case did, it will not end well when he has more firepower than the police. Normal everyday actions of the police do not need to have armored vehicles or .50 cal. weapons, but when they do need those kinds of equipment, they are in serious need of them.

Think about this for a minute. If an everyday citizen that owns a .50 cal. weapon had as many violent encounters as the police have to deal with who do you suppose would be misusing that weapon the most? I suspect that it would be the untrained individual. In this case the police used it to the best advantage. They took out his engine.

 

Was it as surgical as reported?

How many rounds of .50 BMG were expended?

 

I have no idea as of this time how many rounds were fired from the .50. I haven't seen any news story on it yet.

 

Article that was posted on the Aprila-Forum's discussion of the same topic:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/gunfire-targets-dallas-police-headquarters/33562586

From the article

What is unclear, based on this article is if SWAT shot to the driver was the 50BMG or was a different rifle.

*IF* SWAT shot against the driver was from a different rifle, then the department followed Geneva convention and used the 50BMG against equipment, not people.

*IF* SWAT shot against the driver was from 50BMG, then it's a violation of the Geneva Convention, but Darren raised the issue of sovereignty, so *from a legal perspective* I'm not sure if the Dallas PD played within the rules.

The common sense side of me knows that dead bad guy = dead bad guy regardless of method.

Post-facto armchair quarterback in me is interested in the legal question (G.C. vs. Sovereignty)

Personally, I'm glad he went after the PD instead of the ex-wife that got granted custody of his kid. At least the PD has the capability to fight back/return fire. If he had gone after the ex-wife, then we'd have mulitple dead in addition to the shooter.

 

Here's the current CNN link:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/13/us/dallas-shooting-timeline/index.html

And the video version:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/13/us/dallas-police-headquarters-shooting/index.html

 

Geneva Convention covers international warfare. Has zero bearing on intrastate law enforcement.

 

I can buy a Barrett. I cannot buy a hellfire. If it's good for one of us, it's good for the other. The cops should certainly have access to anything I can own, and vice versa.

 

I might be wrong, but I don't think the G Convention outlaws .50bmg .... Ma-Duece is a .50 and Seal snipers use .50 also

 

It's was my understanding that the .50 was supposed to be used against equipment, not individuals.

It appears that this "prohibition" is a urban legend/myth.

The best article I could find on it so far is this one:
https://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/killing-myth

More anecdotal evidence suggests that it's the *projectile* not the caliber that can't cause unnecessary suffering.

So, looks like that one is resolved, even if the Dallas PD used the .50 cal.

 

Sounds like they used the right tool for the job - disable the vehicle, and punch through glass to get the perp - all from a distance that kept them from maybe getting all blowed up and stuff. A .338 LapMag prolly woulda done the job too, but they must not have had one. In any case, I'm pretty sure they don't lug that .50 around day to day. It just gets pulled out of the locker for special occasions. It's really not a "special military" weapon in that you can pretty much buy one at no more difficulty than a .300 WinMag in most states.

When you want the LEO's to make the baddies go away, they really should have the tools for the job. If they need Hellfires, it's probably for something way over what local LE could handle, so I don't think they'll get them any time soon.

 

I have no idea what they shot through the windshield later, it wasn't mentioned on the radio and I haven't watched the news or looked online. That being said, what difference does it make if he was shot by a 50, a .308., a .223. or a 9mm?

 

So a 460 weatherby shoots a 500 grain bullet at 2700 and you're Ok with that but not a 50 BMG? How about a .408 Cheytac, would that one be Ok?