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AHRMA Dissolution?

Discussion in 'WERA Vintage' started by 83BSA, Oct 30, 2006.

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  1. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Hmmm...gee whatever made you think this? May be a problem unless Ohio House Bill 301 (now a law) changed the requirement that a nonprofit could only go into the hands of another nonprofit...any business law professors in the house? By the way, many states are changing their business codes to allow corporations to do more and not face stockholder (member?) dissent or
    lawsuits...

    It continues, just rolling along, sucking lawyers, judges, trustees, clerks of court, court reporters, bailiffs, racers, racer-wanna-be's, and innocent bystanders along in its wake...when it's all over, I have first rights on a movie
    about this Epic Motorcycle Mayhem...who's on tap to play the main characters?:D
     
  2. push rod

    push rod Well-Known Member

    more answers just seem to breed more questions

    It's pretty easy to imagine the egos at the top, whether it's Smith(and/or successors) and Rob getting carried beyond the point of rational return.

    What I have a hard time understanding is how any of the trustees(over the years) would sit through discussions of finances that included the divulging of the extent of legal expenses and the prospects of further expenses in each upcoming year. And this should have been a discussion that would have happened EVERY year. Did all these trustees just sit in some sort of intimidation-gripped go along mode? Was there ever any dissention? as in why not settle? negotiate? seek mediation? Did any ever speak up?

    Were they all sworn to secrecy?

    Or did the top officers keep the trustees in the dark?

    When I first heard that Rob may be going after the trustees, I thought that it might be way over the top. After I thought about it more, I think we need to hear from the trustees. Regretably, the only tool to make this happen may be litigation.
     
  3. Robin172

    Robin172 Well-Known Member

    I don't know how the finances of putting on races are worked out in the US but from my experiences in being on the committee of a racing club in the UK a certain amount of capital is needed to put on a meeting.

    The club I was involved in put on about 10 races a year and we went into each season knowing that there would be at least one meeting that we would lose money on, normally at the start of the year. We would have a fairly good operating account in January which we could rely on to pay the deposits and run the first couple of meetings. Often we would either lose money or just about break even on those races, we would sometimes then have to dip into the club 'emergency fund' to run the next couple of races. By the middle of the season we always made enough money to replenish the 'emergency fund' and then to put money into the operating account.

    I don't understand how a club in bankruptcy can possibly run a race meeting. Where does the money come from to pay the track? It's easy to say it comes from the entry fees, but there must be some races that don't pay for themselves but are covered by monies made from other more popular venues. What happens when there are less entries than needed to pay the circuit? Isn't it possible that some tracks might then pull the plug knowing that they will easily be able to fill the date with a track day etc.?

    Despite the assurances about a full schedule next year I have my doubts.
     
  4. YamRZ350

    YamRZ350 Nicorette Dependent

    I'm still finding it hard to believe there's that much money to be made in running vintage races.

    All that money wasted on legal fees, and still enough money to run the club and put on races. I'm having a hard time figuring where it all came from?
     
  5. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Re trustees and litigation expenses: more conjecture- maybe they all didn't know, and maybe there weren't really big expenses each year. Maybe the
    lawyer(s) involved made it seem like a 'sure thing' (why worry?). Maybe
    some did dissent. Maybe. Maybe things went south after the D&O coverage
    evaporated. Maybe this, maybe that. Trustees run the show, the 'officers' work for them. And, finally, yes, litigation may very well be the only way to
    arrive at the truth. Maybe, that is.:rolleyes:

    "Deserves got nothin' to do with it."
     
  6. YAM#849

    YAM#849 y'all watch this...

    Well, I don't know what to say except it's there. It's not just roadracing- there's MX, dirt track, and trials. The dirt track guys have actually had a few events where sponsorship covered the whole event, no entry fees! They wanted the bikes there bad enough that they put on the race and made the money off the gate and paid AHRMA to do it. Wouldn't it be a great thing if we could all get promoters like that? I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen, but it's pretty cool.
     
  7. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    better believe it just think how much they are making to waist 1.2 mill in that short time.:down:
     
  8. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    :up:
     
  9. Robby-Bobby

    Robby-Bobby Steeltoe’s Daddy

    i hosted an AHRMA NATIONAL dirt track in mobile al. 2 years ago. we (d&d) handled the track fees and AHRMA DID NOT HAVE TO PAY ONE PENNY! we have done our share to help preserve vintage racing and lately bringing 6-8 bikes to every race and running close to 10 classes at each event and getting treated like poo! makes me want to start my own vintage org! :rock:
     
  10. phantom 309

    phantom 309 Well-Known Member

    I also like how hatten worked hard to get sponsors for some classes that payed money,(GOOD WORK MARK)and the rest of the board said they didn't think it was a good Idea to pay in the vintage classes.But its fine for the modern ones.That is bull shit .They still want to pay motoguzzi money to top finisher on motoguzzis .would this be because andrew and will dog run them.The old farts on the board need to go, so vote if we get a chance.:beer:
     
  11. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Historically (year in, year out based upon the limited financial data published in VV), AHRMA road racing made money, dirt track broke even, and motocross/trials lost money.

    There are no signed contracts, and no deposits for road racing events in 2007 according to the bankruptcy filing. So, other than another "trust us", what objective evidence exists to support the repeated assurance by AHRMA that they will have a "full road race program" in 2007? None. Why would a US Trustee think a member-owned, non-profit motorcycling organization with current debts that far outstrip current assets, and a potentially large contingent liability would be a good candidate to "re-organize" and be financially successful and "profitable" when it has no contractual commitments from any entity to provide it with the resources necessary to have a hope of getting back into the black?

    Based on the foregoing, I have filed a Proof of Claim in the Chp 11 bankruptcy as an unsecured, nonpriority creditor. I urge other members to do likewise in order to have a hope of having some real input into the organization's future. I'll post info on forms and how to do it later.
     
  12. JBall

    JBall REALLY senior member

    :stupid: I feel sorry for Mark the Hatman as I believe he was working hard to really take a modern professional look at things and now has to deal with this crap.
     
  13. Yamaha Fan

    Yamaha Fan Well-Known Member

    It would probably be real helpful if someone posted a link to a generic proof of claim form along with the case # and filing address.... I am sure it would increase the volume of claims filed... :up: :D
     
  14. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    Hi All,

    Dave, if you have a chance can you explain what you mean by a " Proof of Claim in the Chp 11 bankruptcy as an unsecured, nonpriority creditor." I thought page 33 of the bankruptcy filing listed us as non owning members, or something like that...
    Thanks,
    Sparksfarmer
     
  15. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Chp 11 Unsecured Nonpriority Creditor Filing

    To interested AHRMA members who have paid their membership fee:

    The following is information relating to my filing a Proof of Claim in the AHRMA bankruptcy proceeding as an AHRMA member, which I think may qualify as an unsecured nonpriority creditor.

    DISCLAIMER

    I AM NOT A BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY. I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BANKRUPTCY LAW. I DO NOT PRACTICE IN BANKRUPTCY COURT. I DO NOT REPRESENT CLIENTS IN BANKRUPTCY MATTERS. I OFFER THE FOLLOWING ONLY AS A RECITATION OF WHAT I HAVE DONE, AND FOR OTHER'S CONSIDERATION IF THEY WISH TO PURSUE SIMILAR REMEDIES. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER AHRMA MEMBERS QUALIFY AS UNSECURED, NONPRIORITY CREDITORS, AND I OFFER NO OPINION ON THAT MATTER. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FILE A PROOF OF CLAIM IN THE AHRMA BANKRUPTCY, YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND YOU ASSUME ALL RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH WHATEVER ACTIONS YOU ELECT TO TAKE OR NOT TAKE. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS IN THIS REGARD, YOU SHOULD RETAIN AND CONSULT A KNOWLEDGABLE AND COMPETANT ATTORNEY WHO PRACTICES IN THE BANKRUPTCY AREA, AND OBTAIN COUNSEL FROM THEM. WRITTEN ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PROOF OF CLAIM FORM IS THE FOLLOWING: "PENALTY FOR PRESENTING FRASUDULENT CLAIM: FINE OF UP TO $500,000 OR IMPRISONMENT FOR UP TO 5 YEARS, OR BOTH. 18 U.S.C. SECTIONS 152 AND 3571."

    To file my Proof of Claim, I went to www.tnmb.uscourts.gov. I went to the "home" page. I clicked on "site map." I clicked on "forms" in the middle of the page. I went to the second page, and midway down, I located a Chapter 11 proof of claim form (Form B10). I clicked on that, brought up the Adobe document, and printed out all three pages, including instructions.

    I completed the "Name of Debtor" as: American Historic Racing Motorcycle Association, LTD. I completed the Case Number as: 3:06-bk-06626. I used my membership number as the "last four digits of account or other number by which creditor identifies debtor." I listed my claim as "other" and wrote in "membership unfulfilled." I classified my claim as unsecured nonpriority" in the amount of my full membership dues which were due November 1, 2006, and fully paid and accepted by AHRMA prior to that date.

    My rational for filing as an unsecured nonpriority creditor is as follows. I have fully paid for 2007. AHRMA does not list any executory contracts, or deposits for any tracks for 2007. There is no objective evidence of AHRMA's ability to provide me with the programs they claim they will provide. Their current debts far outstrip their assets, and they have a large contingent liability against which they have asserted a vigorous defense for 5 years to the current expense of more than $877,000. Hence, AHRMA apparently believes that contingent liability has significant merit. There appear to have been questionable expenditures, principal among which involve disbursements of Benevolent Fund monies without disclosure to the membership.
     
  16. charles

    charles The Transporter

    Thanks for posting this information (and the "Disclaimer") for members to follow...
     
  17. 83BSA

    83BSA Well-Known Member

    Bendelow Response

    Well, I received a response from AHRMA's "General Counsel", Ted Bendelow to my November 9 letter which I posted above. Mr. Bendelow tells me that because I am one of over 5,000 members, he will not respond to my letter. Instead, he suggests "that direct [my] request to AHRMA, and it will determine how to best respond."

    Now that is very interesting. I wonder if the fact that Mr. Bendelow's cash cow is no longer producing for him has anything to do with his current approach? You see, in 1999, Mr. Bendelow, while representing a very solvent, and then flush with cash AHRMA, did respond to individual members' submissions. At length. And at considerable expense. Ron Raven and I filed a motion to file an Amicus (friend of the court) brief in the then current Eleventh Circuit appeal between Team Obsolete and AHRMA. We suggested to the 11th Circuit that the Court order the litigants to resolve their dispute in the proper way and the proper forum: on the race track. Mr. Bendelow wrote us nasty letters and essentially said it would be a cold day south of the River Stix before any court would ever consider such a ridiculous suggestion. He then billed AHRMA over $10,000 to oppose our motion and argue how ridiculous it was to the 11th Circuit.

    If it was so ludicrous, why did it require $10,000 of effort? See a pattern here?

    What is really interesting is what AHRMA will do. I wrote every Trustee and I've received return receipts for Janiec, Hilgenburg, Breckon, Lowery, Mann, Lambreth, Rodi, and Root. Bently Borg, Mork, Hatten, and Goodpaster are still outstanding. Ostensibly, AHRMA would obtain legal counsel on such a response. After all, it was "on advice of counsel" that they refused to answer any questions. But who is that counsel today? Is Bendelow going to provide or advise such a response? Is the "advice of counsel" they were relying upon the same counsel who have abandoned them? If Bendelow provides a response for or on behalf of AHRMA, how will that be any different than the response he declined to provide me? Is there a separate billing mechanism or philosophy in play here? What is going on? Do you think that perhaps there may be a bit of stonewalling taking place, or are my expectations of information and responsiveness by the organization unrealistic?

    We'll see. . . .
     
  18. limy_1

    limy_1 Crash Starter



    Just curious if Bendelow were to answer your questions would he not be working on behalf of AHRMA? You still deserve and answer from him and the others.
     
  19. charles

    charles The Transporter



    Sounds like Watergate...where's the smokin' tapes? CYA routine for sure.
    No one wants to say anything, they had lots of practice over the years.
    Next move, 83BSA?
     
  20. sparksfarmer

    sparksfarmer Member

    lookout for the helicopters...

    Hey All,

    I got to tell you BSA, you seem to see black helicopters in every grassy knowl...
    Based on something that may have happened six years ago, you expect the Lawyer to start writing an answer to your letter... Of course if he did end up charging the club 10k for your answer back then, and the same would happen now, I'm glad he did not respond to you. He may have been directed by the club, in the last 6 years, not to do that again, (IE answer individual mail.) If he did and it was billable time, who would he bill? The club is in bankruptcy so who is going to authorize him to start racking up billable hours? I would think the club's finances are on hold as the Bankruptcy trustee would have something to say about them. Did you notice a line on the bankruptcy filing for extraneous expenditures by the attorney to answer questions???

    I understand that since you have first hand knowledge of how "ethical" an attorney can be, you may have a special in-site into why you distrust the clubs attorney so much... But even a first year student should realize that a letter to an attorney is not going to get any real information... If it did, the clubs attorney would be a putz for answering you...

    Again, I do not think you own the club. You are not a shareholder, or an officer. If I as a shareholder wrote to the legal department for Homer Depot, do you think they would send me a letter explaining their legal strategy? If that lawyer wrote me back with any details, he would be a putz too! You own nothing! You are a membership holder,not a shareholder of 1/5500th of the club! You as a member would have no legal right to know any of the clubs strategy... Just like you would not answer every shareholders letter if you were the council for Homer! (Or correct me if I'm wrong. If I got a few thousand shareholders to each write you a letter asking for specific intel, would you actually take it up on yourself to divulge corporate business???) What would give you the legal authority to answer any questions???

    Well, Since the club has had a few legal advisor's, Bedlow(sp?) then the NY legal team and finally the bankruptcy attorney, before one decides that he can start talking about his clients privacy, he would need to know he is not screwing up the other two attorneys case plus he would need authorization from the board to discuss it. (Even if he did talk to you 6 years ago, they were not in bankruptcy then and many things have changed...)

    On a positive note, BSA, thanks for explaining your concept of why you would be a creditor of the club? I appreciate that you spelled out your disclaimer so others think before they just follow your lead and start filing papers with the court.

    As I'm sure each of the Trustee's will need to confer with the others and decide what they may and may not discuss with you. I would not expect a letter any time quickly.. Hell, they may need to talk to the different law firms they have to See if it is appropriate to discuss the matter with you. That may not be what you want to hear, but again, if this was Homer Depot, I'm sure you would then understand that it takes time for the next board meeting to come around and then they could decide if and what they want to discuss with the members. Then they would probably run it by the attorneys to make sure they are not jeopardizing the case. Considering the TO suit may go on, they may have to wait until they have new council before they discuss it. It would be foolish of them to write a bunch of detailed letters while they are possibly without council... AS any of those letters will quickly get posted on TO's website and copies would get forwarded to Rob. No sense giving the guy suing you any information. If you were the clubs attorney, I"m sure you would tell them better to say nothing than anything that can get you in worse shape. Especially cause Rob now is thinking of suing the individual members...

    I really think We, the membership will probably get our news via the official website since if they just send info to you, they would be neglecting the rest of the club. There or in the Vintage Views... Hopefully they will be able to let us know ASAP. but corporate bankruptcy takes time, and there is no hurry to get it wrong...

    Take Care,
    Sparksfarmer

    Watch out for the helicpters...
     
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