Rulebook question: R6 fuel tanks

Hey Everyone,

My biz mostly makes parts for Ducatis (including a few plastic tanks) and while we were vending at Laguna World Superbike, someone said I should make a plastic fuel tank for the R6. He says the stock tank is metal and sticks out past the sides of the frame and all the racing orgs require tank sliders. I made a post on R6 forum and this seems like a great idea.

My goal and intention is to increase safety by designing a replacement tank to be more narrow and reduce likelihood of contact with the pavement if the bike is sliding on its side.

Additionally:
» Ensure its approval by race organizations so no R6 racers are left S.O.L.
» Total capacity close to OEM
» Save racers $

To try and help prevent problems after the fact: How do I work with Racing Orgs and their Race Directors about getting plastic replacement tanks allowed/approved?

Thanks,
Chris

 

Much better idea than the foot holders. Things I would like to see. Direct replacement of parts from the metal. Include the front plastic piece as part of the design. Keep in mind that the tank issues were the 06/07. And the 08+ is different, not only do the sides not stick out as far, but I believe the underside is different (might be wrong on that). I'd buy one to keep my bike from becoming a flaming BBQ, even though I do have the newer model and sliders on it.

 

Few questions:

1. How much are you talking about when you say "more narrow"? The tank is an important aspect of anchoring yourself to the bike (unless of course you want foot anchors ). If we are talking about 1/2" or so, ok. But if we are talking about Ducati 1098 narrow, that would change things drastically.

2. What kind of coating are you going to use on the inside? Can you guarantee it will be able to stand up to Ethanol and race fuels? That is still a big problem on some non-metal tanks (Ducati and Aprilia).

3. How much will it weight? If the answers are solid for 1 and 2, and it is lighter than OEM, I will buy one.

 

08+ tanks don't require sliders. The 06/07 ones did, but the problem wasn't generally that the tank would abrade a hole, it was that the design of the corner produced a crease that buckled and split during impact.

If you want to be safety-conscious and affordable with it, I suggest duplicating an OEM tank but rounding it more and smoothing the hidden side panels (still steel). Otherwise, I'd want one that went nuts: carbon-kevlar, 7gal capacity, internal baffles to prevent slosh.

 

Thanks for your replies!

Most points are more relevant in the actual product development: details which I will address in the design phase, after I believe this tank will be welcomed by race organizations' management (and rule books).

Right now, I am seeking to coordinate with race organizations.

To be blunt, this is FOR people that race so if it's not allowed and/or doesn't meet requirements that satisfy requirements for sliders, I'm not going to make a plastic replacement tank.

Well, I designed the Monster Track Tank to be all about the groin & hips, helping the rider hang off. I would not want to make the R6 tank "unusable". At the same time, I also don't want it hanging out in the breeze for the ground to chew on.

No problem. Our tanks are made like the "Baja tanks" and the giant square fuel jugs that were/are so prevalent. They are made in Los Angeles of cross linked polyethylene (PEX or XPE). The OEM tanks from Acerbis for Ducati and Aprilia are nylon.

The drawback with PEX is that it allows fuel vapor to permeate the plastic atoms' matrix and leave. So PEX isn't really paintable. You can wrap it if your wrap has holes in it. You can spray paint it. You can put stickers on it. Paint it to look nice and the vapor will create bubbles and lift the paint off the PEX.*

Nylon prevents "permissivity" and prevents vapor from exiting the fuel vessel. But nylon is extremely fond of water, so it absorbs liquids' molecules INTO its own matrix, which makes it change shape. Nylon (PA6) literally grabs hold of water and keeps it!

PEX is very dimensionally stable, exceptionally rugged, and when polyethylene is cross linked it does not crack. Our PEX tanks average 0.200" thick so are noticeably lighter than nylon tanks. By memory, comparing our MTT tank to OEM metal Monster tanks, I'd rate them as equivalent.

As my intention is to make a tank that would be allowable in all classes, thus it will not be intentionally lighter than OEM tanks, as that would obviously be an unfair advantage in SS type classes.

IF during the design phase I learn that few of these R6s still run SS I will then poll racers to learn more about design preferences like increased volume, shape, weight, and filler configuration. It's easy to add another filler cap and NOT cut the hole in it. I have race prepped bikes, raced Aprilia RS250s for 3 seasons and am a good engineer.

Yes to plastic replacing the metal but I'm not wanting to get into making fairings. My goal is to interface with what's there already. If I mandate a fairing, the price of the tank would go from $450ish to $800ish. The mold for a fairing is 3x the price of the mold for the tank. Fairing = injection molding; tank is rotational molding.

I've already been told that some race orgs require sliders on 08+ even if not a rulebook requirement for WERA. Also note that this posting is my first posting to a race organization. So I'll have to bug MRA, CCS, ummm... then who else?

That's pretty much the goal.

And this is exactly why I'm here.

So, can y'all please help the people within WERA organization to get in touch with me? If they want to email, the contact info is on every page of my website. If they want to call, our phone number is on every page of my website (but best to catch me around 4 pm Pacific).

Thanks - seriously, thanks for your help with this. I am outside of my comfort zone dealing with not-Ducati, but I am passionate about motorcycles and racing.

Chris

*- see that star above near where Chaotic mentions a liner? Our molder is working with another company to develop a barrier product which would be a second "shot" in our mold that goes inside the PEX. This has the possibility to make our tanks paintable.

 

Oh and I forgot to mention that our fuel tanks come with a lifetime warranty against leaking. If your tank leaks, we will supply a replacement for free. Shipping included in USA & case-by-case internationally, where we normally ask customers to split shipping costs.

Yes, if you crash it and rash it, that's your badge of honor. Crash it and make it leak? Then you get a new one. This is how we back up our Ducati tanks and I see no reason to treat R6s or any tank differently.

 

Dude, not going to lie. You lost me with all of that. All I saw was "nylon eiaheien and bhehrh 0.0022 hew tanks are P90X ehwiwni pow ehuf beiwen paenreie swheinr tureniubn swewe PED weheebe"........



If I can't paint it to match the rest of the bike and the other bikes, that is a problem. At least for me.

I haven't see the whole exploding bike thing with any of the 08+ tanks. I am sure somebody has seen one somewhere, but there have been lots of other bikes explode too. In other words, in a crash anything can happen. But they (Yamaha) seemed to have resolved the apparent issue with the 06/07 tanks. I have lowsided my R6 also and the tank did get rashed, but it didnt buckle/split like Chris (tophyr) talked about happening with the 06/07 tanks. The clip-on and rearsets took most of the damage.

My point is, while I am not saying it isn't possible, as anything is possible in a crash...changing the gas tank on an 08+ R6 isnt necessary (for safety reasons). Which means if your tanks are going to be marketable, they will need to offer something different/better than the OEM tank.

I love changing gas tanks. I put a 100% Carbon Fiber tank on my R1 and the difference was very noticeable. You remove that much weight, at the very top of the bike and not only does it make the bike a good bit lighter, but it drastically lowers the COG. My R1 immediately handled side-to-side transitions easier/faster with less effort.

In other words, speaking for myself, I won't buy one if it is simply a direct replacement (with no advantages). But if you can make it pounds lighter, and paintable, I would buy 2 of them.

Of course this is just my opinion, others may vary.

 

Well, to be blunt I'll be pretty surprised if it gets OK'ed for SS classes but I definitely love the idea and as an engineering geek the info about the plastic types is fascinating. User Mongo on here is the guy you want to talk to; he's likely easiest reached at [email protected].

I'm not sure how familiar you are with them but OEM 08+ R6 tanks run around $500 new, and can be had used and lightly damaged for as low as $250 if you're lucky. I assume the PEX doesn't bend/dent like steel does - that fact combined with the warrantee you described would go a long way toward earning my business at the $450 price point you mentioned. (I am imagining that basically the only way to destroy the tank and not have it get replaced for free, then, would be to abrade it to the point of failure - impact damage aside from puncture sounds like it's covered.) The no-paint thing would be a large mark against it however - painting a tank is cheap, wrapping one is not. $450, SS-legal, that warrantee and an inner coating that made it paintable, would have me buying one as a spare before I even needed it.

Race organizations other than those you mentioned that (I personally) care about it being legal in would be WMRRA, OMRRA, AFM and USBA. WMRRA and OMRRA are a bit of a different beast in terms of rule legislation than WERA is (I don't know how AFM/USBA work): rule proposals for the following year go up for a membership vote at the end of the season. All you'd need is a vocal club member as a proponent to have a shot at it.

 

Thanks for your replies, guys!

Oh damn that mongo still kickin around? I remember him when I was haunting this place in `01 - `02!!

About the colors and paint, we can at least make the tanks in various colors. White, black, blue, and natural/clear are already available. As is the custom compounded Ducati red we have. And doesn't matter if you rash down a tank... make it leak and you get a new one.

Yeah... if the paintable-ness happens, I'm gonna get rich. That's the 1st thing everyone mentions. :P

 

I want one for my Superbike. Damn the Rules!

 

Make a much bigger tank for the Grom! Lots of big bore kits but they have a single gallon tank. Lots of room above and behind the tank.

 

dont be a debbie downer, think of those that dont want their bike to end in a fire ball, even if the problem is fixed, there is still a chance

 

There is always a chance, with any bike. Mongo's point was that it isnt a safety concern with the 08+ bikes due to the redesigned tank. Meaning, the current R6's arent any more prone to exploding than any other bike.

 

Win a kickstarter & I'll build it.

 

yes I know. I mentioned that in my post. I just want a freaking cool ass gas tank.

 

I do too.

I don't want/need more volume, I just want it lighter. If it is a good bit lighter, ill get a couple of them.