any grattin endurance news???

[Strick]

Originally Posted by russ#299

it says under the announcements section on mylaps that someone is being protested. who would that be?

Ummmm ...........read this very thread.

[Mongo]

5150 and Arnchu.

[Sunny]

So someone from the Velocity camp suspected the original bore and stroke of the stock master cylinders weren't used on these 2 bikes................hopefully they actually somehow inspected the cylinders themselves before protesting.......................otherwise, this is going to cost them $$$ on top of other things..............................


Wouldn't like this to happen to them, but don't want others to be found as cheaters either...............................this is a lose-lose situation.......................................

[Steve Karson]

Sounds like they couldn't beat them on the track, so they are trying to beat them with the rulebook.

[Mongo]

So you think it's okay to cheat if people are fast enough?

[Sunny]

Hmmmmmmmmmm..................with best lap time about 2 seconds apart, I wonder why they think they deserved the win if that were the true intention (still speculation from some)............................a brake master cylinder can't make that kind of difference...................................at least I don't think so since I am not a hard braker at all.

Anyway, I hope that no one cheated........................

[Mongo]

Sonny - quit with the periods it's annoying.

Either way the point is simple - the Brembos do not have brake fade, the stock ones do. Brake fade in a 6 hour race is somehting very very important to a teams finish.

Now - keep in mind also that no one, especially the protesting team, feels these two teams knowingly cheated. The Brembo sellers are saying these are the same as stock. The protesting teams feels they are not. I'll find out for sure and let everyone know. To be honest I'm floored no one - the people buying them or the people not buying them - has thought to check before now and I've been waiting for this protest since people started touting the Brembo master as the cure all for brake fade. The only thing I've ever know to cure brake fade when all other items in the system are equal is more fluid...

[Canadian Bacon]

Originally Posted by Mongo

So you think it's okay to cheat if people are fast enough?

Of course it's not okay, this could get into a huge ethical debate which I'm not going to try to do. Does Velocity really think that they got beat because of the suspected part? I'm sure it was worth the approx. lap an hour. Bottom line is they got outrode on the track and beat in the pits. I think there is more to the story than Velocity, not going to go into details because I was not there during the actual conversations, just hearsay from my side. I think Arnchu should take it as kind of a compliment though. At least it makes my decision of where to buy fuel easier.

[Mongo]

If you're dumb enough to let a simple protest sway you - then I'm sure they'd rather you take your business elsewhere. The bullshit in the paddock is and was total bullshit and people as always were running their mouths. Anyone who actually believes that type of paddock crap has to be dumb sorry. I've seen more than enough of these incidents to know better.

Quite simply the protest would have happened had the finish been closer or been much further apart.

[Sunny]

Originally Posted by Mongo

Sonny - quit with the periods it's annoying.

Sorry chief, consider it done. I just need to use something to "pause" before continuing.

Originally Posted by Mongo

Either way the point is simple - the Brembos do not have brake fade, the stock ones do. Brake fade in a 6 hour race is somehting very very important to a teams finish.

Now - keep in mind also that no one, especially the protesting team, feels these two teams knowingly cheated. The Brembo sellers are saying these are the same as stock. The protesting teams feels they are not. I'll find out for sure and let everyone know. To be honest I'm floored no one - the people buying them or the people not buying them - has thought to check before now and I've been waiting for this protest since people started touting the Brembo master as the cure all for brake fade. The only thing I've ever know to cure brake fade when all other items in the system are equal is more fluid...

I never rode a long distance race to experience the true brake fade effect (very noticeable one). I knew my bike has brake fade, but I didn't think it was significant enough since I only do sprint races and change brake fluid whenever they gets cloudy and/or the brake didn't feel consistent enough during a race. I also simply thought that the major part of brake fade is the brake fluid's property, and brake pad/rotor combination (material property again). I guess the cylinder design is also a very big part now that you mentioned it since it determines how efficient the brake fluid is getting worked (and hence what kind of absolute boiling temp is reached during constant hard use).

[Steve Karson]

Sean, in the past, you were always the first one to call out someone using a protest to win , when they couldn't win on the track. What caused your opinion to change?

[Mongo]

Originally Posted by Steve Karson

Sean, in the past, you were always the first one to call out someone using a protest to win , when they couldn't win on the track. What caused your opinion to change?

My opinion hasn't changed. There are different situations - I docked laps from team at Willow for a chopped front fender because I had a number of pitstops to measure. I don't have that option here and no one can argue that the Brembo isn't a performance advantage if it doesn't meet the rules. If it does it's a moot point. What I have a problem with is protests where it's a huge gap and you can easily tell the protested item had no effect on the outcome of the race. Brakes in endurance racing? Huge performance issue. Larger gas tank - same deal. Large tank in sprints, a total non issue. Same for quick change items.

I've never ever had any issue with protests - unless they're truly stupid. In this case I'm floored it's taken this long to get one about the masters, I figured by now we would have sorted it out in the sprints or endurance stuff.

[fiptas]

Originally Posted by Mongo

If you're dumb enough to let a simple protest sway you - then I'm sure they'd rather you take your business elsewhere. The bullshit in the paddock is and was total bullshit and people as always were running their mouths. Anyone who actually believes that type of paddock crap has to be dumb sorry. I've seen more than enough of these incidents to know better.

Quite simply the protest would have happened had the finish been closer or been much further apart.

So why wasn't it done before. It could have been brought up before the race and the parts changed. The same thing happened with the fender bolts at Jennings. And it was handled the way it should have been. Are we really expected to disassemble a Brembo and mic internal parts? If the thing is stamped and sold as the same stroke and bore as stock and used by a clear allowance in the rulebook I don't see a problem. If some team or individual somehow finds out it is in fact slightly off from stock specs then why wouldn't you notify the other teams or the race director so steps can be taken. Waiting for an opportunity to take away a deserved win with something like this is pretty lame IMHO. For the record I don't know who protested who, and most of the people I've met at the nationals don't seem like the type to do it. But it is what it is.

[Mongo]

If you are swapping parts from stock - then hell yes you are expected to know the exact specs of both the stock and the aftermarket parts. Otherwise use the stock stuff that is a known legal part.

Protests are a good thing so to try and blame people who do it as if they are in the wrong is ludicrous. If you're stuff is 100% legal then they can't protest it can they?

Anything won while cheating is not deserved sorry. Even if the intent wasn't to cheat you still did not win anything because you were illegal.

You guys seem to forget that it's extremely easy to stay legal in SS classes.

[Britt]

Yeah use a STOCK Dash


RTFRB

[Mongo]

Originally Posted by RaceDad

Yeah use a STOCK Dash


RTFRB

Unless of course aftermarket ones have been specifically allowed all season

[RoadRacerX]

Originally Posted by Rice Cube

Sorry chief, consider it done. I just need to use something to "pause" before continuing.

[Britt]

Originally Posted by Mongo

Unless of course aftermarket ones have been specifically allowed all season

But unlike the SA Inserts, there was no competition Bulletin allowing said change..

[RoadRacerX]

Originally Posted by Canadian Bacon

At least it makes my decision of where to buy fuel easier.

[Canadian Bacon]

Originally Posted by RoadRacerX

Wow, come up with that one all one your own?