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what is france's problem

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by Richard Lesher, Jul 18, 2003.

  1. Richard Lesher

    Richard Lesher Well-Known Member

  2. wera176

    wera176 Well-Known Member

  3. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    "The 7-year-old commission has links to the Academie Francaise, the prestigious institution that has been one of the top opponents of allowing English terms to seep into French. "

    What a bunch of Chuckleheads. Oh sorry, Le' Chuckleheads.
     
  4. Hmm. I think I actually agree with the French people on this issue. Ich spreche ein bissen Deutsch, and I've been dismayed at how German has been rapidly "englishized."

    English is a chaotic language, with no real controls. New words are created all the time, and the rules are so fluid there might as well not be any. Both French and German are controlled languages - there are even governing bodies. Several years ago the governing body for German announced some radical changes, the most significant being relaxation of centuries-old grammar rules, the least of which was adding hundreds and hundreds of English words to German, and declaring them to "officially" be German words. So now, for instance, these words are German language words:

    Customer-service
    E-mail
    Handout
    Job-sharing
    Latin-Lover
    Voice-mail

    and these are just a few.

    The only difference between the English words and the German words is often just the hyphen.

    So, between the Englishizing and the new relaxed rules, the once proud and precise German language becomes bastardized.

    The French are working hard to maintain a national identity through preservation of their native tongue, and I don't think that's a bad thing. After all, most of them also speak English, and speak it better than most Americans! :)
     
  5. Richard Lesher

    Richard Lesher Well-Known Member

    and then perhaps one day French will be as useful as Latin

    national identity is great and all that, but that what ceases to evolve starts to go extinct
     
  6. You miss the point. The French are evolving their language. They are using or creating uniquely French words for new terms, instead of just adopting the English word.
     
  7. Tank Boy

    Tank Boy clank clank boom

    But they are doing it artifically and as a snooty reaction to having beloved "culture" contaminated.

    BTW- English is FULL of words taken from other languages. French, Spanish, Italian, etc... That is one of its strengths is that it readily obsorbs new words and grammer (and why its structural rules are so chaotic).

    Its also why it will be used long after French is only taught is schools and spoken in a few isolated villages...
    :p
     
  8. MarkB

    MarkB All's well that ends well

    What happened to "Vivre le Liberte' " and also "vivre le difference"???

    No liberty, no celebration of independance of thought or language. Damn, I'm choking on my Freedom Fries at the thought of it all....:Puke:
     
  9. Richard Lesher

    Richard Lesher Well-Known Member



    No, they are reengineering it. It already did evolve.

    Instead of saying electronic mail in the French translation they were calling it e-mail like everyone else.

    Now, there appears to be a committee to reengineer the proper word for e-mail.

    This requires mass communication (e-mail most likely, oh the irony), to get the whole of the French society to use the new word.

    This is not evolution, this is isolationism.

    I really don't care what they call it. I just thought it funny, and it seems to be a typical French thing to do.
     
  10. So what? I'm not a fan of the French, but at least they HAVE a culture. What's wrong with them wanting to preserve it?

    I'm thinking that a lot of the derisive comments are coming from the same people who say, "If you immigrate to the US you have to be just like us and speak our language!" Hmm? :Poke:

    Uh, yeah, I'd think this should be pretty obvious since English is a DERIVED language. English is considered a Germanic language. It soaks up words from other languages because, like most of its native-language users, it has no self-identity. :p
     
  11. Richard Lesher

    Richard Lesher Well-Known Member

    all the easier to take over the world, that is the design:D
     
  12. Tank Boy

    Tank Boy clank clank boom

    If a culture can't stand on its own, it is doomed.

    Then you'd be wrong. Yeah, realistically in this country if you want to get ahead or even get anything done, you have to know English. If I went to Spain, then I would learn Spanish.

    Whatever man. The self-deprecating hubris thing isn't very convincing.
     
  13. MarkB

    MarkB All's well that ends well

    Primarily, language is a method of COMMUNICATION i.e. the stransfer of information between two people. This is its main purpose.

    However, this society in France has identified a more important role of language - i.e. to give NATIONAL INDENTITY, and in doing so is attempting to change some of the language. This, in turn, diminishes the primary communication role of language. That is why this is so crazy.

    National Identity is gained, not through language, but through winning things and beating other countries. The French and British were great at this, but now the Americans and Australians are best at beating others. That is why they have such confident and strong national identities.

    The French are kidding themselves in this case.
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Flies all green 'n buzzin

    English probably is the most popular second language but it is losing ground overall.

    Countries where people speak Hindi, Urdu, Arabic and Spanish are growing much faster than those using English, and there are three times as many speakers of Chinese languages as there are of English.

    Internationally, English speakers have among the smallest population growth rates of major languages.

    So instead of being arrogant and dismissive about other countries attempts to protect their culture, if you have children, perhaps you should be pondering what their second language should be? :D
     
  15. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    Richard, to answer your original question of what's France's problem.


    Too many Frenchman! It'd be such a better place if it was full of Spaniards like Xaus. :D
     
  16. TXFZ1

    TXFZ1 Well-Known Member

    I'm currently having to deal with a Frenchman on a professional level and it's been very difficult to keep it that way. The crap this man's spews is outragious and then blames it on a language barrier. I learned my lesson and will now only deal with him thru written letters/email. So, in light of that....

    WTF?? Geezze, who gives a flying leap if the froggies call it nasalmail or commiemail. Hmmmm, what about us....we call 'em traffic circles and MarkB's country calls 'em roundabouts...and that's from two english speaking countries, i.e the same freakin language and we/they have to be different. What's up with that shite. :D It's not like we are the centre of the universe and everything revolves around us like a tyre on a axle.

    David
     
  17. Tank Boy

    Tank Boy clank clank boom

    The difference is that people came up with different names for the same thing at the same time. Where as the Frogs formed a committee to call it something else just to be anal....
    :rolleyes:
     
  18. TXFZ1

    TXFZ1 Well-Known Member

    And your thoughts on ebonics?


    David
     
  19. Ex CCS Racer

    Ex CCS Racer Banned

    I'm for sending back the Statue of Liberty. Anyone else?
     
  20. Tank Boy

    Tank Boy clank clank boom

    Fuckit. Scrap her to make the wiring for some cruise missiles to launch at Paris.
    :p
     

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