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What is EBR's biggest reason for not gaining traction in US market?

Discussion in 'General' started by RyanDCramer, May 25, 2017.

  1. L8 Braker

    L8 Braker 'Murica

    --Too much money for not enough bike
    --One rotor
    --Fugly
    --Paired with HD, which Sportbikers hate
    --See first reason again and again
     
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  2. L8 Braker

    L8 Braker 'Murica

    I will admit that I thought this one was pretty bad ass.

    [​IMG]


    Stock form, though? Eh.....

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner


    If you could we'd all be rockin' Durrani wheels :D :D :D
     
  4. Sweatypants

    Sweatypants I am so smart! S-M-R-T... I mean S-M-A-R-T!

    what was the basis for deciding on single pivot vs. linkage design for the rear suspension in his eyes? does anyone know?
     
  5. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner


    It was even better looking (and faster to boot) when they fixed that stupid front end....go figure.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. turbulence

    turbulence Well-Known Member


    Looks like a Daytona 675...

    Might as well just buy a Daytona.

    I liked that he did things differently, it's hard to think out of the box with sportbikes. Even full on GP prototypes aren't that different from my streetbike.

    Two wheels, swingarm, frame (this is why I like ducati.. they do it different), clip ons, brakes. Yadda yadda, same ol shit.
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  7. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    This was the nail in the coffin for EBR as far as I was concerned. When they put regular brakes on them and were able to lower lap times significantly it really showed that the "engineering" was suspect.
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  8. Exactly.

    Give us an I4 or V4 American made sportsbike, with conventional Ohlins suspension and conventional Brembo brakes. If it is good, that bitch will sell.

    We want to buy American, but you are going to have to give us a reason to do so. Just being "made in America" isn't enough. It must also be good and fast.
     
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  9. 50Joe

    50Joe Registered User

    Have you looked at new 600cc sportbike sales in the last oh let's say 7 years (US market)? They pretty much suck. My local dealer won't even carry them anymore. He claims between the high cost of the bikes and high insurance rates most people in the demographic buying age group can't afford them. Older buyers simply opt for open class sport bikes. I think the sportbike market has shrunk massively over the last decade and there is no room for Buell. Many sportbike buyers have switched to adventure bikes or standards since they make way more sense for street duty and give nearly the same performance on the street.
     
  10. SLLaffoon

    SLLaffoon Well-Known Member

    MSRP on a 600cc supersport was in the $7-8k range 15 years ago. Now, they start at $12-13k. That's a bit more than just an inflation increase.
     
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  11. JBraun

    JBraun Well-Known Member

    I think the braking system was fine for a street bike, and probably fine and even perhaps beneficial for most of the people bitching about it here. I talked to Cory West about it when he was testing some new rotors at RA. He said that the brake worked really well, and that it offered some handling advantages. The issue was brake fade, and anyone who's tried to race Cory knows that he's the right guy to test the limits of your braking system.

    Yes, when you put Canepa on the thing, he out-rode the brakes, but you're not him and neither am I. That bike with the shitty brakes was on the podium in AMA Superbike with May and Eslick. Neither got better results on any other bike.

    To be clear, I don't think it's superior to a conventional setup, and I'm not saying it doesn't have issues. I just get tired of the echo chamber. It's like the people who ask me if the steel frame on my KTM flexes too much. Fuck if I know, ask Ryan Dungey. You could probably drill holes in it and I wouldn't notice.

    My point is that the problem wasn't the bike. I think EBR made a bad choice even trying to play in that sandbox. If they did succeed in a down economy where the motorcycle industry is on life support it would have been a miracle. I also think it would have taken many years to get traction. Anyone with the capital to weather that storm is smart enough to not invest it in a motorcycle company.
     
  12. Sweatypants

    Sweatypants I am so smart! S-M-R-T... I mean S-M-A-R-T!

    it took a HUGE jump right around 08-09' when the value of the $/Y fell out the fucking bottom from like 120-130Y=$1 to like 80Y=$1. that meant that all other things being equal, your dollar bought a WHOLE LOT LESS japanese manufactured goods than it used to. there was also the price of oil skyrocketing for a few years that was used as another excuse/factor towards cost of production/transport increases, leading to an increase in MSRP for that good to hit your showroom floor here in America.

    the whole rub of it was though... when there was a dollar recovery to the yen in like the 13-14' time period to more or less levels that it was the decade before, and oil prices halving and holding for a few years now... there wasn't all of a sudden a reduction in sales price to coincide with these changes. raw materials in the mid-00's were also surging, and in particular the chinese over-supply of metals has crushed that pricing pressure and demand as of recent.

    so now... your dollar buys more japanese goods, and getting them here and producing them are (besides normal inflation) cheaper than they were 5 years ago, and relatively the same as they were 10-15 years ago. what that says to me is... corporations increased prices when supply side pressure was on, then they still sold acceptable volumes of these units, and when supply pressures eased, they said, "this shows us that the market is willing to accept these current prices so we will maintain them as a steady year-over-year rise," irrelevant to what their actual costs were.

    ON TOP OF THAT... a lot of the models forego any significant changes for a long long time... meaning development costs were probably long paid for and depreciated against, especially when looking at bikes like the R6 that milked (and is still milking) the market for all its worth.

    i would love to see the P&Ls of the big 4, for the last 15 years... maybe one day when i'm bored i'll try and find them and comb thru them to see what the story really is, but this is all my hunch. they're probably available since these are publicly traded companies and all.
     
  13. 3twins

    3twins Well-Known Member

    Yep. Brake fade and/or rotor warping has been the issue since ZTL 1.0 on the air cooled XB's.

    Anybody race an XBRR in WERA?
     
  14. 600 dbl are

    600 dbl are Shake Zoola the mic rula

    I can't remember what article I was reading (Motocysz related?), but it was referencing why the basis of motorcycle design has not changed much. It spoke about how riders, as the progress through the years become accustomed to how a bike feels and reacts. If a bike changes the way it feels the riders will be less comfortable to push the limits, even if the radical design is better.
     
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  15. JBraun

    JBraun Well-Known Member

    Also, Victory just ate shit and they were building one of the best motorcycles in that segment, were price competitive, and American made.

    In the end, the market decides. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't, but finding the secret sauce is a difficult thing to do. I think speculating about what EBR did wrong is a little silly, because no one really knows.
     
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  16. caferace

    caferace No.

    Ohlins aren't Made in America. :D

    -jim
     
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  17. cpettit

    cpettit Well-Known Member

    I don't recall that thing beng on the AMA superbike podium but I remember it winning against 600's.
     
  18. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    these thoughts were published a lot when Moto2 came about and everyone saw that no one decided to think outside the box. twin spar aluminum frame FTW. its taken the amazing steel manipulating skills of KTM to even build a good trellis frame. the chances of a competitive telelever front end or something more crazy in racing is slim.
     
  19. JBraun

    JBraun Well-Known Member

    Your memory is incorrect. Not even the same bike.
     

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