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WERA C superstock vs 2018 Moto America supersport 600

Discussion in 'General' started by regularguy, Jan 20, 2018.

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  1. regularguy

    regularguy Always Krispy

    For 2018, MotoAmerica has combined 600SSTK and 600SS. The 2018 MA 600ss bikes are a lot closer to WERA C superstock with some exceptions. Is it time for WERA to flip on the front master cylinder?

    BRAKES
    f. The front brake master cylinder may be replaced.

    CYLINDERS
    a. Cylinders must be the originally fitted and homologated parts with only the following modification allowed:
    i. Cylinder head gasket surface may be machined to allow the adjustment of compression ratio or resurfacing to repair a warped cylinder surface deck.
    b. Homologated materials and castings for cylinders must be used. The surface finish of the cylinder bore must remain as homologated.
    CLUTCH
      • a. Aftermarket or modified clutches are permitted.
      • b. Back torque limiters are permitted.
      • c. Friction and drive discs may be changed.
      • d. Clutch springs may be changed.


    So after a quick glimpse, the MotoAmerica bikes can have aftermarket master cylinders, ceramic tranny bearings, aftermarket slipper clutches, and the cylinders can be decked. Pretty close but some differences.




    ​
     
    regularguy, Jan 20, 2018
    #1
  2. cajun636

    cajun636 Honda Junkie.

    I’m not thinking WERA cares about MA’s rules lol.

    I mean I agree with the MC portion of the rules even for WERA. And maybe even the Slipper. Bc they all come standard now with them. Why not upgrade it for better performance if need be just like with Suspension. You don’t gain power from it.

    But that’s about it.
     
    cajun636, Jan 20, 2018
    #2
    TurboBlew likes this.
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    I definitely care about them but their rules are for pro racing and that isn't what we do. I am considering the slipper but not wanting to do the master - because that just becomes something new racers feel they have to replace which adds to the expense of getting into this whole thing. BTDT with other items over the years. It's bad enough with all the other expensive stuff that is allowed that people feel is necessary before they even do a track day much less race. Part of what has hurt the sport over the years.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #3
    backbone, Shenanigans, VFR#52 and 5 others like this.
  4. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    Love going out on the track with a bone stock MC and showing fully preped bikes the way around....Hate it when it happens to me! :crackup:
     
    Motofun352, Jan 20, 2018
    #4
    Gixxerguy855 and VFR#52 like this.
  5. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

    I agree which is why I wouldn't recommend the slipper either. It's much more expensive than a master cylinder and everyone will think they need that too
     
    Boman Forklift, Jan 20, 2018
    #5
    obcbr likes this.
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Agreed, and will double check but I think the new ones all have them so it's not out of line as an upgrade to an older/cheaper model. Can't allow that with brakes though, too big a potential performance advantage.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #6
  7. ekraft84

    ekraft84 Registered User

    2018: Lower costs > syncing rules
     
    ekraft84, Jan 20, 2018
    #7
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yep, always been the way I try to look at it. We did go to allowing pipes and such so club racers could buy good used equipment and race it - and no one seemed to ever save the stock exhaust - and that then carried over a few years later to Novice buying Expert bikes so we had to allow it there as well. Other things like aftermarket rotors seemed like a good idea until it was taken too far.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #8
  9. kenessex

    kenessex unregistered user

    If you want to race MA and the cost or work of changing a MC is stopping you, you had better rethink your program,
     
    kenessex, Jan 20, 2018
    #9
    rcarson15 and TurboBlew like this.
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Exactly, but it can make a difference to someone who thinks they can't race without one - which is why I've been pretty adamant about it in SS.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #10
  11. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

    None loaded question, but is the master cylinder something that's checked in post race wera tech?
    Or in other classes besides 600ss?
     
    noles19, Jan 20, 2018
    #11
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    We do visual looks after a lot of races (and on the grids as well). If we catch people we don't make a huge deal out of it and just handle it.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #12
  13. noles19

    noles19 Well-Known Member

    Of the master?
    I was just curious because I know I've seen a bunch of lwt bikes with different masters, and it's pretty much the first thing track day guys are told to change.
     
    noles19, Jan 20, 2018
    #13
  14. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Yes, of the master. It's not every SS class or every SS grid. Tech guys mainly look for safety issues first as well, then can get into legality if they're even paying attention to what class is out there. With the LW stuff it gets even more confusing with so many classes with different rules in one race.
     
    Mongo, Jan 20, 2018
    #14
    noles19 likes this.
  15. GrayGhost

    GrayGhost Well-Known Member


    NO. Not to nit pick , but seriously there are so many Brembos in S-Stock that at NOLA the past few years its been a running joke.



    That being said , I don't see it as a huge issue. I raced my GSXR for years on the old recalled MC without too much issue . I can say that it has never been the determining factor of me winning or losing a race.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    GrayGhost, Jan 20, 2018
    #15
  16. StaccatoFan

    StaccatoFan My 13 year old is faster than your President

    Respectfully disagree with Mongos position on Master Cylinders being cost prohibitive. Racing by its nature is cost prohibitive. Otherwise everyone that wanted to do it would do it.

    A $259 Master Cylinder is not going to stop someone that wants to be on the grid at Wera

    It will however be safer than the oem one that came with most of today’s bikes. Although they are getting better they’re still not built to the tolerances of Brembo or Accusato
     
    StaccatoFan, Jan 20, 2018
    #16
    rcarson15, BEi Racing and Wheel Bearing like this.
  17. 418

    418 Expert #59

    I think the slipper is a attempt to make the Honda competitive ish.

    As far as cost, a MC isn't necessary but holding people back from wanting a extra safety measure seems silly.
     
    418, Jan 20, 2018
    #17
    regularguy likes this.
  18. gapman789

    gapman789 Well-Known Member

    BRAKING is selling 19x18 with folding lever, reservoir and bracket for $175 shipped from hardracing.

    I recently bought one of those and 3 Accossato 19x18 with folding lever for $180 each from Omnia racing on ebay.

    Fairly inexpensive really..... in the name of safety.

    Might as well bring back the Production classes.....Stock exhaust and all if it's a matter of cost.

    Noobs are buying $500 slipons thinking they 'need' them that offer 0 gain. At least a $200 MC has something to offer as far as ones' racecraft is concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    gapman789, Jan 20, 2018
    #18
    Brad likes this.
  19. Brad

    Brad Swollen Member

    Pretty simple to me. Going forward after 2018, put all the bikes with current "SS" mods into sbk classes and reintroduce a true Production class like the old days. Anyone with "sbk" would still have classes to bump to and there might be a bunch of brand new bikes sold to go racing on. A lot easier to do that when people don't feel the need to buy and still spend another $5k plus for "race prep" parts. Wire it, throw on some body work(or not-just a pan) and go racing!

    Sorry, not much to do with matching MA rules but feels good to throw out there. :D
    (just fishing for some bitching, whining, and crying when this thread inevitably goes sideways!) :D

    I type my drivel slowly and gapman beat me to the punch......
     
    Brad, Jan 20, 2018
    #19
  20. rafa

    rafa Well-Known Member

    People calling out safety issues with the OEM, what is the actual issue?
    I have been racing with a stock one and never had issues.
    But then again, im not all that fast.
     
    rafa, Jan 20, 2018
    #20
    snikwad likes this.
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