Vintage Rules for 2018 Bikes not points

Vintage/lwt guys are always saying, "Just stick us at the back of the grid with XYZ". Is there a method or rule aside from lap times/closing speed for putting a BUNCH of races together?

And... I caught myself .
The issue, for example, for a V3 bike is there are very few other races that you could safely put at the back of the grid, with the ability to race up one class completely dependent on finding a second race with comparable speeds.
If you piled all of the bikes of similar speed into one race, there would be nowhere to run a 2nd or 3rd race for the day.
This is where double headers make sense from a business point, I suppose?

 

Ok went back and re-rad it.
Now where i got my info from about vintage bikes are from guys who bought bikes but never used them.
And a few yrs ago aka 2014.
There where 5 guys that gave me info.
And i also based it on Cmra having bikes that fit in class V7.
So there are bikes out there and guys who have interest in class.
Maybe not like old days as you put it.
So didnt dodge your question per say.
I didnt answer it.
Sorry.
As it stands now f3 are cheap and bikes that have raced in V7 class before have no resale value at all.
And the start up cost is cheap for class and its a good class to get started in.
And no i do disagree about points because every person i talked to said thats reason they didnt enter V7 class.
And after i learned how points work i see no need to spend money after a certain time of yr cause its a waste of money if you cant win them all.
No incentive to keep racing.
Just look at how many showed at GNF with 120 points in V7 Or V8.
But its all good.
Next yr will be better.
And i always sign my name and always will.
Everyone will just find something else negitive to say about me.
Notice i dont care?

Steven Isenhower #52

 

I showed up to the GNF with 92 regional points, I missed a RRR double header because I was at PittRace for the endurance. Trautmann showed up with 134 regional points. But since the current point setup worked out that it takes the top 6 finishes regardless of region, we were close, as I beat him at PittRace. So no, your argument isn't valid.

http://www.wera.com/points/showpoints.asp?x=1098&s=71483624032&rg=10&c=94

So you argue that there are regions that nobody has any competition in, and they get handed an easy 120 points. Ok. So who's fault is it that those classes aren't growing? The guys that show up, or the guys that sit on their hands at home bitching about the points system instead of gridding up?

 

Maybe it is because I am new and slow and all that jazz, but I have never understood this. Can we all agree that the act of racing a motorcycle on a track against other people is fun? Then what other reason would you need? I get that there is incentive if there is a championship to win. That is just an added bonus. Racing is what I enjoy, not the awards ceremony.

I guess this is where people differ. I'm not saying ones reasoning is right or wrong. I just do not understand why anybody that enjoys racing motorcycles would stay home because somebody on the other side of country has better odds of winning bragging rights and a trophy for a class racing outdated machines. Maybe I am missing something, and my "rookie card" is showing here big time. I just do not understand this argument.

 

You're not missing anything. I don't want to throw stones here but there are plenty of classes you can still run on modern bikes cheap. They make 250s, 300s, and CBR 500s. Hell you can buy an 06 R6 for maybe $4500 and still be competitive. If I was only running against one or two guys a weekend I would definitely change what I was racing instead of complaining.

 

Motivations vary and will even change with the season. It did for me. I started out with intent to race the full season, two orgs, win regional and hopefully national championships. The beginning of the year was awesome, then one guy got hurt, others didn't want to race the super-hot summer months here in FL. Next thing I know I'm just out turning laps to score points. I've gotten slower since February because all I have to do to accomplish my goals are to turn laps. It has gotten boring, but being the linear guy I am, I have to finish this season and meet the goal of regional.
In true form, I'm selling all of my crap and starting over for next season. One bike to run the series and try to win a championship, two others to go have fun and try to get faster. I lost that part midway through this year.

 

When you first start, you're just excited to get seat time, like you are now. Racing is racing. But as you progress, your goals progress as well. And if you're going for a championship, you're going with the intention to win (if you actually can or not is another topic). However, for me, Barber was 13 hours one way. From a mathematical standpoint, I would not have driven 26 hours if mathematically I had no chance of winning the championship.

That being said, if I was actually truly going for the title all year, I'd be hitting all the rounds I needed to so I could maximize my chances...thus, making the whole point system relatively moot anyways.

 

No sir, you are not missing anything........altho I've been inactive, I wouldn't classify myself as a rookie (STFU Walker, Bowie, Kurt, John Cook, and....nevermind...) and I was considering making a similar comment.

Altho I have seen people pull in early, it has been for a different reason...no one to race so minimize wear on VERY expensive Norton Manx or something like that, but run enough laps to finish / no DNF.....I've personally never seen anyone go to all the expense of making it to the grid, then to pull in early, basically to protest no one to race with.

Most of the folks I know would turn it into a test or practice session, and like you say, just have fun....especially since you are already there.

This is just my opinion. I'm sure VFR has his reasons and seems to be very passionate and competitive.

Just my opinion. everyone has one.

And just for the record, I don't know any of the Vintage guys who would rather have winner take all at the GNF....maybe Buff, but in general I prefer the current vintage points setup.

 

I pulled in early during one race at the GNF. I made a poor tire choice and went out on rains onto an essentially dry track. The leaders lapped me after 3 laps so at that point I decided I was a hazard to others and pulled in.

I definitely prefer the points the way they are currently setup. It rewards working hard both during the season and doing well at the gnf. I've been a part of championship chases the past few years where it came down to single digit point differences at the GNF. In my book that can't be beat.

 

So i guess you all missed where i won V7 HW in 2015 buy just showing up?
Norman Hammond beat me by 3 inches in race and i won title.
The way my points would be counted Norman would have won title and he should have.
Now in Southeast region Hammond and Bruce Mitchell had been trading wins and cost each other points.
While i was only one in Nola region.
JT blew a motor in race.
My point is the point system rewards someone who is only one in his region and hurts other who are trading wins with only so many races to make points in.
Now as far as me i drive from Houston TX to race in Al and Georgia and Nola in La is my closet race.
So i came up with points deal to not hurt anyone like JT or me if we are only ones on grid while making it so any racer who has a couple fast guys trading wins can still make up points and have a chance to race for national title at GNF.
Simple.
Ive been racing 27 yrs with Wera.
Hell i can stay home and race Cmra as its in TX.
But they offer me nothing as far as Nationl titles like Wera.
I thought it was the best deal for everyone who wanted to earn points and make a race for it at GNF.
But this has been all about making it easier for me to win a national title.
But guess others didnt get memo they should let me win at GNF. Lol
Just look how many show up at GNF with 120 points?
Enough said.
Have a great night.

Steven Isenhower #52

 

Wait JT is selling his f3?
Thanks everyone for the entertainment while I'm laid up on recovery!

 

VFR...I'm struggling with doing this, but I'm trying to understand things....

So the guy who builds a legal bike, makes it to the grid in all the races in his region, finishes all those races.....should be penalized because no one else has done what he has in his region?

Like I said, just trying to grasp your reasoning here....your posts are kinda difficult to comprehend, sorry.

 

Did you notice at the beginning I had asked that this be about bikes and not points? Steven, I(in fact all of us) have read your arguments about the points system and how you travel the farthest and spend the most money and won a championship and don't have anybody to race with and are blackballed by CMRA and know where tere are a billion guys with V7 bikes that won't race because they agree with you about something or BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't care!!!! I am going to go out on a limb here and surmise that the rest of the people posting and reading this thread, DON"T CARE. In fact the only vintage racers that have posted about points prefer the current system. No matter how many times and ways you state it, most people don't agree with your conclusions. Saying m ore and louder won't change it. Declaring it to be true won't make it so. Please, just accept your martyr status at the hands of the great unwashed heathens and recognize that your sainthood is probably just around the corner. If you want to go back to the same old points discussion, please resurrect one of the innumerable threads that you have trashed up in the past and reserve this one for the original purpose. I will remind you that the intent of this thread was to look at specific rulebook changes pertaining to bikes. I know that you have been racing with WERA for a long time, but for the sake of my credibility, I have been racing with WERA since 1977.

Thanks for your kind consideration and have a sparkly day.
Your pal,
Ken

 

Amen brother. I have no personal problem with VFR either, but at some point you need to know when to quit. The problem from my outsider standpoint is that after awhile no one takes you seriously anymore, whether you have a valid point or not. Dude figure out a different approach or accept the reality of the situation. Your arguments are you repeating yourself in barely readable form.

 

What impresses me the most is the fact that it took 200 replies to even begin to derail the thread. That has to be some kind of beeb record.

To get it back (kinda) on track, it'll be interesting to see what keeping the V8 class to a rolling 12 year rule will turn out. But I suppose having a large increase of bikes on grid would be a stellar "problem" to have, for any V class.

 

So, what about the Ironhead Sportster? Data I've seen shows a 3 hp difference between 883 and 1000.