Tire question for a newb.

Ran my second track day yesterday at Autobahn in Joliet. Got bumped from novice to intermediate. The coach that bumped me and I both noticed that charging out of some corners the rear tire would break free (2018 street triple 765)

What do you guys recommend? I'm running bridgestone Battlax S21s right now. They were both brand new maybe 10 miles on them. Would Michelin Power Cups be sufficient? Or should I look into race bias ply tires?

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.....

 

I’m hearing great reports on the Dunlop q4 without warmers apparently so sounds like an option.

 

What kind of pressures are you running?

As your pace goes up and you put more heat into the tire you may need to decrease your cold pressures. I'm by no means an expert, but that is where my investigation would start.

 

30/30 cold. Couple people I talked to yesterday said that they're at their limit. Going 30F/28R wouldn't help. Suspension has a base setup from Turn one.

 

Call Brian Van @STG.

 

Nope, race tires or pretty much any tires in those sizes haven't been bias ply since the early nineties. I would suggest you work on riding technic first, your bike set up and air pressures. I'm sure they are hundreds of guys around that can go a lot faster on those without spinning up the rear in an uncontrolled manner.

 

And OP I was not trying to be disrespectful I was trying to say approach other areas first, then think about new tires. I've helped host many new tire or new bike launches over the years with journalists and racers both on the street and racetracks and I've learned this. You can go very fast on street tires everywhere if you practice good riding skills, and take your time to learn them.

 

on your second track day, and first in intermediate group, it's not the tires. or rather, it's not the brand and compound. it could be tire pressure being way too high (as has been mentioned) or it could be throttle application at lean angle. i suppose there could be a suspension element also, but it ain't the tires.

 

If you can get the wheel to spin on a bike that makes <50 ft lbs of torque... tires aint the problem.

Also I heard a really funny "coach" reco from someone recently. This particular "coach" recommended traction control for 2 purposes:
-tire wear
-tire pressure

I got a chuckle out of that.

 

I was also out there, did all 3 days. Awesome track. I'm running the Metzeler Compk slicks and they are amazing! They are made to be able to run without warmers without the heat cycling issues of normal slicks.

They wear great, stick like glue, I love em. I set them to the recommended cold temp range of 30-32 front and 23-26 rear. I used 30f/26r. You can use warmers as well but I havent felt the need to.

They warm up quick, 1 lap when doing the 1.5 mile course, half a lap when running the full course. I just make sure and be aggressive on the straights with acceleration and braking, and they are warm in no time.

I think they are a perfect trackday tire for guys who want a little more traction and better wear than street tires but pace might not be able to keep true slicks hot enough. I decided to try them after looking for something new to try (I had only ever ridden Dunlop q3 and q3+, which were great by the way). I'm also in Intermediate.

EDIT: there are many people away faster than me running street tires (q3+, RS10, Power RS, etc...) in advanced group even. I just wanted to try something new and I love them. Also switched to a 180/60 rear and prefer it too.

 

Before you get all ahead of yourself overcomplicating things, have you assessed and analyzed your throttle application coming out of said corner? Even on race slicks I've slid out the rear because I was ham-fisting the stick coming out of a corner. The next lap around I exited with smooth and consistent throttle application and poof, no rear end kicking out, just a nice straight drive off the corner exit.

2 trackdays is not nearly enough time to introspect thoroughly on everything you're potentially doing wrong technique wise. On those same S21 tires a more skilled rider (on a lesser HP bike) will be able to ride right past you like you're dragging an anchor, so I would think about that first.....too many people whether they are on track or street tend to think they require much more grip than they actually do.

 

So reading all the reviews seems like I should look into suspension and tire pressure first. Rewatching some Gopro footage originally I said spinning out of corners, I need to correct myself. Basically going into a couple corners I'd lean off the bike and dive in, the rear tire would wash a bit and then grab, then I'd start to roll the throttle out on corners. Never did I spin coming out, it was always diving in.

But I may try the Michelin Power RS tires next. I did see a ton of people with them and a few people here said they were good.

Thank you guys for any advice to a newbie.

 

Well I'm a millenial so were always offended...or something like that.

But seriously no disrespect taken. I will take any criticism that will help me be a faster smoother rider. I was jusy hyped yesterday being bumped to intermediate so quickly. I know I have a lot to learn still!

 

The rear tire doesn't tend to slip and slide on corner entry unless you're coming in REALLY fast and on the brakes REALLY hard, like this (which you are not likely anywhere close to doing)





On corner entry (or diving in as you are referring to it) its the front tire that's under duress, once you've started applying the throttle that's when the rear tire starts to take over. Also, appreciate that as a newbie, little slips and slides are going to feel to you like you're doing something like that picture up there even though you're nowhere close to having the bike moving around like that.

At novice/intermediate trackday pace your corner entry/exit speeds are not going to be anywhere close to pushing those tires to the point they are slipping and sliding around on you....provided you are using proper technique and as previously mention have proper air pressure in the tires for the given conditions, so you should start by examining those things first.

You can of course choose to run whatever tire floats your boat, but you may be complicating things by running a tire that requires the use of warmers to work properly and again, putting the stickiest tires you can find on the bike is not going to fix poor application of the brakes and/or throttle on corner entry and exit. Fix the cause, not the symptom.

 

The CompK slicks are an amazing value. Just wish they came in little bike sizes.

You didn't happen to hear about those from a guy on a Kawi, did you?

 

I would not "judge" a tire by who uses it in whatever group. Also with 100 different people at a track day, you'll get 100 different opinions, with 100 different bikes/setups that qualifies the definition of "great" ... in other words SUBJECTIVE.
Black, round, and inflated to proper pressures, for your pace, is all you should be worried about.
Getting bumped up or down really doesnt mean much. You could be "A-" pace in 1 org and "C" pace in another or B+ in another. Even then... there could be riders that have A pace but all the spots sold out at the event so they register/ride which ever group has a vacancy. Please dont take that as an indictment of trackday providers... they all have their own methods of policing/benchmarking.
Lastly... I would suggest listening to Ken Hills podcasts to lay out basic fundamentals/drills you can practice at trackdays. Moreso than buying any "superbike" parts you may feel will make you faster.

 

What the OP is describing sounds like what I used to do at the very beginning of my track riding. I was relying heavily on engine braking to slow for turns, and it would result in the rear sliding out while leaned over. 2006 R6. It could be something as simple as remembering to think about not using your motor to slow you down.

 

I believe I saw them in a tire thread here. The prices are amazing...I got them at moto-garage.com. 2 rears and 1 front was only around $320

 

Understood. I just mentioned it to show that it's not like my tires were holding me back.

edit:
There was some Pilot Road 4 tires being ridden faster than me. So, yeah, skill was my limiter, not the tires.

 

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!
Just watched my footage from Monday the few timea I did it over the weekend, were at the beginning of the turn, leaning in and coasting, I must have fully closed the throttle and the rear tire would skip across then hook as soon as I started applying throttle. What I thought was weird was that there was no hot tearing or bluing of the tire.

So it seems like my technique is the problem and not the tires. Thank you guys for everything!!