As I continue to research about tuning suspension I am finding more and more about tire pyrometers. I got a infrared thermometer but clearly thats only good for surface temps. Is using a cheap pyrometer worth it? Not sure I'm ready to add this into the equation of my track side escapades but I like the idea of it. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...ENp2qjz7sRACLacxWi0ANEVD1qUXu6xrdWRoCZgDw_wcB
Might be a matter of just spending the $100 and trying it out. Currently I'm hot tearing only one side at a time (right on cw and left on ccw tracks). I could start diddling with things again but I kind of like the scientific approach with a temp reading since once the tire starts tearing it's difficult to see if you resolved it without a new tire.
I think to make better use of such a device you would need temperature info from the tire manufacturer. All I've seen so far is a blurb about Pirellis needing to be between 120 and 175 degrees. That's quite a window...
Yea but wouldn't it all be specific to the track, compound, etc for the given day? Right now I would measure my left side and just try to get the right to match it. Similarly following race tech spring rates have gotten me in trouble temp and pressure are a guide.
I dunno, I think it might be something to play with but you're just making assumptions without any real data backing it up. Im sure GP teams use it, but they likely have the data to extract the knowledge they need from it as well. What im saying is if you have a problem you might just be adding that one more unknown into a problem which might make more questions than answers.
Wouldn't using something like these be the exact opposite of assumptions? It takes out the bike "feels" like this or that part of it. It would become the temp is either up or it's down. Not trying to be argumentative, I suppose if people aren't using it at the club level it's for a reason. I'm certainly no more or less capable then anyone I've just found out there are things that you find out people do the faster they go. Like how now my bike has springs rated for someone 40lb heavier then me.
taking a measurement isnt adding an unknown, its doing the opposite. its also not difficult to call whatever tire manufacturer, talk to their race dept, and get a good range for carcass temps. club racers assume their tire temp is within range because they set some pressure on the warmers. but theres a lot of variability in that, plenty of chance for things to go wrong. the warmer could be 20F off. their pressure and temp could be ideal for their riding in 80F conditions but not 60F. etc etc. club racers probably tear rear tires 10x as often as pro teams because they dont actually know what temp their tires are at. having more data would improve that. personally, im prob buying a pyrometer within a few months. ive been dealing with some crazy stuff with tires and have realized how little i actually know. all my "knowledge" was based on a bunch of assumptions and it only all worked because id been to that track a million times.
Yea so far this season I've managed to destroy rears at twice the pace I used. New bike so of course things could be way more out of whack then I realized. First time I noticed it was at PIRC just after the new new new repave and they were saying everyone was tearing tires. Ok I said and accepted it. Few weeks later, Grattan it does the same thing albeit to a lesser degree. If I throw away $100 trying it out then whatever, not the worst way I've blown cash. If I can manage to make my tires last an extra 10,20,30 laps then it payed for itself instantly.
You're just adding another variable to an already complex equation. IF you have reliable data it may come in handy, but if not why bother? Just pointing out if you're not going to do the homework that comes with it, don't think it's going to be a worthwhile tool. Same goes for just about anything however, I suppose. Taking a measurement IS an unknown until the data is there to back up the findings, is all im saying. I'm not trying to sway anyone this or that way, just trying to make conversation, hopefully intelligent. My example would be something like a car data stream shown on a scanner. A problem child vehicle may show its problem in plain sight with all the data right at your finger tips, yet, unless you know what the data actually means its quite worthless.
Are u a scientist or an engineer by any chance? U don't sound like it. Your use of standard terms seems very wrong. The unknown, the variable already exists. We ride the moto on track without having any knowledge of what the actual tire temp is. Taking the measurement does not affect this at all. Yes it's obvious that conclusions would be easier to draw from limited data points with prior knowledge. But who cares. Anyone could prob take one days worth of tire temp data and already learn something. It's not hard to draw conclusions when a tire tears at one temp and not at another. Drawing conclusions is precluded by taking the data, yet u seem to be suggesting not doing that. Doesn't make sense. The chances of being confused by valid data is generally less than being confused by a lack of data.
IF you're willing to put the time into figuring such data out, otherwise its just a number on a sheet of paper. That's why GP teams are at the peak, not only is it the rider and the bike, there are people behind the scenes going over huge amounts of data and looking at all the variables, basically what I've been saying. Not hard to look at a tire and say its way to effing hot. No, not a engineer, I'm a tech, where real world and theory collide.
i dont like the picture that u are trying to paint here, that tire management is some difficult task that must be undertaken by an army of data technicians. there are plenty of tiny Moto2 and Moto3 teams with perfect tire wear that do it without even a dedicated tire technician. i get it, u dont want to undertake this task because u think itll create more confusion for u. why bother talking someone else out of it though... as for "not hard to look at a tire and say its way to effing hot", that part isnt true. if problems and their solutions were so obvious, mike wouldnt have created this thread. and i wouldnt have just ordered a tire pyrometer to replace my non-contact.
You're making it as difficult as you want to, just like the guys with high end suspensions and the like they don't really need. If the tire wears good and is predictable, who really cares what temperature it is? Even the OP was concerned about adding more shit on the list of stuff to worry about at the track, rather than what really matters, focusing on the riding.
im an engineer. adding more shit to worry about to eek out another few tenths is totally my MO . plus my tires dont always wear good. every single MA event i did this year, there was something left to be desired with the tire wear in at least one session. with such limited track time at those events, some extra knowledge on tire temp will go a long way for me.
It's not easy to record this data quickly enough to get useful information, especially if you're doing it yourself as a rider. You do a cool off lap and then into the pits, and the tire cools quickly. Each track has different lengths of time for your in lap. You need info for left and right side grip area, drive grip area, and center. The temps redistribute from warmer to cooler after you get off the throttle. Get the temps as quickly as possible and be consistent. Make a data sheet that's easy to use and keep it organized.
I figured having the pyrometer, note pad, and a friend on hot pit would be ideal. Of course convincing someone to do that may be the issue. I just wish I knew at what temp things started to get ugly before I find out by trial and error. Maybe a phone call to pirelli is in order.
Rather than taking the approach of avoiding catastrophe, you might rethink it as using that data to discover what spring rates, clicker settings and geometry changes do to the tire life and grip. Use it to improve your lap times rather than to prevent disaster - disaster prevention will happen on its own if you are vigilant. That's why having a data sheet with all your setup info is important - you can relate this new addition of data to what else you have done with the bike. Over the course of many races, you may recognize trends and use that to your advantage. A good tire tech can tell you quickly what to look for temperature-wise.
Really wish I had this thing for today, PIRC was eating tires. Apparently the secret was Michelins....
