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Thinking of Getting a 2T and Have a Few Questions

Discussion in '2-Stroke Machines' started by KrooklynSV, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. 5axis

    5axis Well-Known Member


    That is exactly where the cup bikes and grey market RGVs fit for track day fun. Hitting the middle ground between turnkey, boring diesels and purebred GP 2T supermodels.
     
  2. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    I've thought about that and it's still an option. I just hate the thought of getting a 2T that's going to be slower than my current 600RR. :( Can a properly setup Cup Bike run in the Advanced class and almost keep up with the 600s? I know it depends on the track, but let's say we're talking about Button Willow or Streets, which are the two tracks I'll be riding more of soon.
     
  3. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    I'd say no. Even a good TZ won't run with a 600 down the straight. But, you more than make up for it in the corners and brakes, while only barely falling behind down the straight.

    Personally, I say you should still make the jump to the 2t. It's not THAT bad. While we might have a big maintenance schedule, keep in mind the relative ease of this stuff. If you're not mechanical then yeah...it's not a good choice. If you are though, you're going to find them VERY rewarding.
     
  4. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    I figure down the straights an Ape would be no match, but I'd expect a TZ to keep up. I'm not worried about straight line speed really. That's why I chose Streets and Button as tracks that I'd be concerned if I couldn't stay within a reasonable degree of variation from lap times I could put on my 600. I don't know my situation in terms of garage space (moving to CA in the spring and may not have a garage :( ), so a TZ may still be feasible, but a Cup bike would be a lot easier to manage. I figure if the RS250 can keep up reasonably on Streets and Button then I'd probably take the plunge. If it's going to get smoked then I'll either get a TZ or keep my 600RR (Boo!).
     
  5. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    I can't answer specifically to a cup bike, but I know as far as power goes it's more inline with a 125 GP bike than a real 250.
     
  6. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    Well according to old AFM lap times the Cup bike is ~10 seconds slower than the 600s around Button Willow. :(
     
  7. soarertt

    soarertt I hate electric legs

    Are you drunk? The average kitted RGV for pump gas makes around 65whp, and on AVGAS 70-75whp for the average privateer (with the oil pump).

    My street bike is hovering between 60-65...

    Compares to a 125 my :tut:

    (AFM cup bikes are not kitted bikes, maybe 50hp?).

    TZ's are nice, but I'd rather have a suzuki vtwin, very proven reliable power since it's GP racing days in the 90s where it dominated 250cc classes all over the world.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  8. Clay

    Clay Well-Known Member

    Ok...I thought we were talking about the Aprilia standard street going 250. And it's not easy to beat 45hp at 180lbs!!! :p
     
  9. soarertt

    soarertt I hate electric legs

    LOL...

    Honestly If I were racing 250cc class, I'd get a K1RS, they are getting 80+hp out of them recently and setting lap time records all over the UK.
     
  10. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    OK. It comes down to this; we all know a TZ would be quicker than a 600RR (for example) on a tight track, but would a nicely setup RS250 (Cup bike)? To me the appeal of a 2T is the cornering speed. I'm just worried that an RS250 won't be any faster in the corners than my 600RR. So, the change will be to just have something different, which isn't enough for me to make the switch. What I need is someone who's ridden both and can say with a certain degree of certainty that an Ape RS250 Cup bike will or will not be quicker in a tight track than an equally prepped 600 (Ohlins fr/rr for example).
     
  11. turner38

    turner38 Well-Known Member

    Clay is right, the street based 250's are very comparable power wise to a 125, A good rider on a 125 will be faster than on a RGV regardless of its state of tune.
     
  12. turner38

    turner38 Well-Known Member


    A cup bike will be very similar in corner speed to a 600 but will be a good bit slower in lap times. A TZ/RS250 will be faster mid corner than a 600 with slightly slower lap times.
     
  13. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale premix huffer

    YZ250 top end every 50 hours
    TZ250 top end every 300 miles

    That's by the book. For track days on a Jekyll-Hyde track that's half kart-slow and half GP-fast, I go 600 miles on my TZ, inspecting and re-ringing at 300. But there's always more stuff like leak testing and fixing little broken things.

    My best recorded 250 time is two seconds off my best recorded 600 time on a 3.0 mile track with a long front straight, tight section, and open section. Later on the brakes, more corner speed, earlier on the gas, with 40 less horsepower = 2 seconds slower over 3 miles.
     
  14. 5axis

    5axis Well-Known Member

    You guys are at the top of the heap in terms of rider ablility. It has been my experience with us older, slower track day hacks that the cup bike is significantly faster in the corners than the big bikes.

    My observations on the pecking order with similar rider skills

    600ss
    250GP - SV superbikes
    SV ss
    125GP
    cup bike

    The superstock SV thru the cup bike will be within a few seconds and close enough that a very skilled riders can cover the difference. My brother is a SV guy and it depends on who is riding better that day.

    Speaking for myself, the cup bike has been huge fun and great learning experience.
     
  15. Coke in can

    Coke in can Banned

    The cup bike is a fun motorcycle, it isn't a 250GP, nor is the RGV. both are reliable cookie cutter setups when compared to the more capable GP bikes.

    Modern 600's are fast, corner speed and straightaways..So expecting a 250 to hang is going to be asking a lot..and no way a Cup bike or RGV will...
     
  16. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    So, Yard (your threads on BARF are really informative BTW - Thanks.) in your opinion someone like me who's running in the Advanced group, can I get away with 600 mile top ends (300 re-ringing)? How about the crank? You think I can stretch that out a little bit too? The TZ is much more feasible if I can stretch the maintenance out. :up:
     
  17. Coke in can

    Coke in can Banned

    I think you're missing the obvious..The maintenance intervals are there for a reason, so you don't hurt the bottom end/motor...Trying to stretch them isn't a good strategy, running on borrowed time is only going to result in a failure and you ending up hurt. Read all the posts again in this thread, they caution you over and over again that being lazy with a GP bike is only going to bite you in the end.

    If you want a "Set it and forget it" bike, get a SV. If you want a bike that needs constant maintenance and upkeep, along with being absolutely mind bending to ride, get a 250GP bike.
     
  18. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

    If I wanted a set it and forget it bike I'd keep my 600. :) I realize it's not in best practice to run past the suggested maintenance intervals, but seeing as how I'm not going to be running GP lap times, I think I may be able to get away with a slightly larger interval. If that's not advisable then I will probably just get a Cup bike.
     
  19. Coke in can

    Coke in can Banned


    The amount of load will be variable to maintenance, but not to a degree you're thinking. The cup bike is a lot of fun to ride, but mind you, it will not hang with your 600 in the corners or the straights. The cup bike with that 500 kit interests me...
     
  20. KrooklynSV

    KrooklynSV Usual Suspect

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