The Formula One Thread

It was pretty clear they were struggling with set up. They seemed to fix that by mid season, and Schumacher won the championship by torpedoing Damon Hill. Senna clearly had the measure of Schumacher until then considering his three poles. Senna clearly had the measure of Hill.

Can someone show me a video of Hamilton pulling a stunt like this?

 

As horrible as that incident was, its important to put it into context: Stunts like that were more common back in those days and did occur. Of course, they would never happen in today's PC world.

 

Three poles that don’t convert into wins (at least two, we won’t count the third) doesn’t indicate having the measure of anyone, but I see your point. Schumacher also had to sit out 4 races that year as well so that one point win really doesn’t paint the picture of the entire year.

Edit: I agree Adelaide definitely wasn’t a good look.

 

How about these victories?

 

So we want asterisks next to Hamilton because he's currently in the best car, but not on Schumacher for any number of his transgressions (and Senna, Prost, etc weren't saints either) and Schumacher, Senna, and Prost all had the best cars at periods in their career.

Got it.

 

Do you believe Hamilton is the best driver in F1 this year?

 

Yes, absolutely. He's the best driver in the best car. It's a win-win for Mercedes. He's also the best of the millennial generation (1981-1996) by far, and by numbers, the best of all time.

Max is poised to be the best of Gen Z'ers, but time will tell.

 

You’re going to blame Schumacher for Michelin not making a good tire?
Also, we’re not one at a timing here. I’m talking about years of dominance that isn’t purely attributable to driver skill.

Hamilton isn’t a saint either. Especially early in his career he was known to put questionable passes on people. He’s the undisputed king of running people off the road completing a pass one week then complaining about not being given room the next.

 

I think both Verstappen and Leclerc have been putting in better drives this year.

 

How? Lewis is often on pole and manages the car from the front. The way the rules are, you have to manage the car vs. just go for broke, so you do just enough to win.

You guys are are being so selective with this. Again, asterisks' on Lewis because he has the best car, but Schumacher had bespoke tires made JUST FOR HIM. He crashed his competitors, he had contracts written that the team would prioritize him over his teammate, etc. This was all allowed, and he took advantage of it, but to ignore that and claim Lewis needs asterisks? Come on, guys.

 

I agree, and I think they are both probably better drivers than Hamilton. Leclerc is wiping the floor with a 4 time world champion.

 

I'm not arguing... as much of a Schumacher fan as I am, there were definitely some transgressions.

The issue of being the GOAT goes beyond pure speed, though. We've seen how Vinales can get pole positions, but put him in a wheel to wheel fight and he folds.

Its a tough one...

 

I’m not saying Hamilton isn’t one of the best of all time, or that his accolades aren’t deserved. I just think his stats are inflated due to the team he’s on. Same can be said of Schumacher, but the level of MB dominance is unprecedented and I don’t think it’s entirely due to LH. The last few years there literally hasn’t been competition outside of his teammate. Of course I can’t blame him for other teams not bringing a competitive car either.

 

Except Lewis left a race and championship winning McClaren for an unknown Mercedes that up to that point wasn’t in the same class as the mcclaren. Everyone and do mean everyone said he was an idiot for pulling that switch. He’s currently the best at preserving his tires and making them work when the others blister them and wear them prematurely. He doesn’t get nearly enough credit for that ability.

 

People need to retire the term "GOAT" and replace it with "GOTE", Greatest of their era.

Its ludicrous to try and compare any sports figure with other time frames.

 

By the time LH left McLaren, Red Bull was in the midst of winning 4 straight titles, so I wouldn’t say he was exactly leaving a championship winning car, but credit where credit is due, Hamilton saw the writing on the wall and correctly figured a customer Mercedes team would quickly be surpassed by the works team.

I hope I’m wrong, but I think the days of customer cars being championship contenders are over which is why Red Bull is so adamant to get the Honda IP instead of going back to Renault.

 

I like that. And everyone knows there's only one GOAT when it comes to driving ANYTHING...Mario Andretti.

 

I would have to agree with this statement. Mario once said his twin brother Aldo was better than he was, just had too many concussions when he was younger.

 

Yeah, no, that would be Sebastien Loeb. Ask @Steeltoe if you know where to find him. He would suck that dick.

While we were clearing things up, my position in this thread has only been that Hamilton ranks ahead of Schumacher. GOAT is unquestionably Senna. And I hated him. So, no bias here.

 

Yeah, I know who he is and just re-read his Wiki to find out what he's done his entire career. Shouldn't even be spoken in the same breath as Mario. No one will ever match what Mario did in damn near every race series on this planet. Racers today are too specialized; Mario is the GOAT over anyone that has ever touched a steering wheel.