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The Ben. Again.

Discussion in 'General' started by Steeltoe, Jun 22, 2019.

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  1. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Says you. If Garrett could pick up a second, why couldn't Cam? If the track were faster and the Yamahas were faster as Garretts was - Cam should have been doing low 22's. But he wasn't....

    Thanks for proving my initial point so well - too many variables.
     
  2. code3ryder

    code3ryder Well-Known Member

    With all the electrical wizzardry and tire improvements nowadays, I'd expect quite a bit faster times compared to 12 years ago. I'm just a fan though so...
     
    Wheeliest likes this.
  3. TX Joose

    TX Joose Well-Known Member

    The point is that Josh was indeed faster on the Yamaha last year.. At least at Laguna. That was the question right? Then there was something about Ben..

    I would conclude Gerloff is faster this year than last year. Not the bike. But that there may be plenty variables.

    Literally everyone that's on their bikes from last year was faster this year besides CB by a tenth.

    So I can confidently say the track WAS NOT slower this year.

    I can also say Ben is a beast.
     
    Wheeliest likes this.
  4. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    I haven't seen anyone come out of the United States since Ben who is anywhere near the level that Ben was. Not even in the same orbit. Noone.
     
  5. Wheeliest

    Wheeliest ʍɥǝǝןıǝsʇ

    I mean, WSBK set a new lap record.. I wonder if Pirelli is going to pay the bounty on that.
     
  6. ts199

    ts199 Well-Known Member

    Ben wanted to have some fun at the Pirelli day yesterday and we don’t carry R1’s on the demo truck which was there for the WSBK weekend. We threw some Pirelli TD tires on, flipped the shifter, took off the mirrors and he had a blast. No need to look any further into the situation than that. Friends helping friends.
     
    Wheeliest, turbulence, Bruce and 5 others like this.
  7. Pneumatico Delle Vittorie

    Pneumatico Delle Vittorie Retired "Tire" Guy

  8. DDK732

    DDK732 Well-Known Member

    My rider said that he felt the track was slow this weekend....but I really think it was a matter of when you were on track. Lots of fog in the morning. Cool winds in the afternoon. Seemed like there was a window of time when the track was in it's best condition and WSBK was typically on track during that time. Some years Laguna can be more inconsistent than other years.
     
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  9. Hooper

    Hooper Well-Known Member

    :stupid:

    Absolutely true. Laguna's proximity to the pacific ocean means that the weather can change pretty dramatically in a very short amount of time, especially in the summer it seems.
     
  10. The SBKs Spies and Mladin raced back then were some beasts. That was before spec tires, cost saving efforts, etc.

    Not to mention, Spies and Mladin were beasts themselves. I’d argue Mladin is one of the greatest Superbike riders of all time.
     
    cav115, Bruce, MikeR and 2 others like this.
  11. Dave K

    Dave K DaveK über alles!

    Number 1 or 2 in my book depending on the time, the date, how I'm asked or if I've had a beer yet.
     
  12. Motofun352

    Motofun352 Well-Known Member

    The "best" go where the competition is, if only to prove that they are the best. I don't blame Mladin for chasing the bucks, I would have probably done the same if I were in his shoes. The fact that he didn't knocks his achievements down a peg or two. Just my uninformed opinion.....:D
     
  13. Hoffman900

    Hoffman900 Well-Known Member

    As I pointed out earlier, Laguna was completely repaved for the 2006 season. That asphalt was about perfect for 2007. Tracks like NJMP were brand new for 2008, again, fresh asphalt.

    They repaved Watkins Glen a few years ago. Same car / driver combinations in spec classes were over 2seconds faster / lap on the repave.

    VIR full, they widened some curbs and repaved. Again, cars were 2.5s faster. Low and behold, a year later Cam is under the lap record on the short course.

    Lime Rock park had lap records that stood from the early 1990s (the last repave) until their most recent repave, when those were all obliterated.

    Obviously, weather plays a huge role in it. I’ve been to events where a front has moved through dropped temperatures enough, cleaned the track off, and with half a day of rubbering in, everyone was 1.5-2s faster.

    Ben was talented, for sure, but he benefited to either new tracks coming online with fresh asphalt or tracks that were repaved.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  14. code3ryder

    code3ryder Well-Known Member

    Do you know what the hp comparison would be between the bikes from then and now? I know there's more than just hp, but it's something you can put a number to. When I mentioned tires, I would still expect new spec tires to be better than tire tech from 12 years ago.


    Again, I'm just a fan and have been going to Laguna since '02 so I love this current discussion. I love the beeb for these threads.
     
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  15. Quicktoy

    Quicktoy Is it Winter yet?

    Those UK Dunlop’s were referred to as unobtanium. Nothing like the us spec tires. Can’t even begin to compare times just based on those tires.
     
    Gorilla George likes this.
  16. Hoffman900

    Hoffman900 Well-Known Member

    You guys also realize Westby Racing has Mladin’s electronics guy, right?
     
  17. SPL170db

    SPL170db Trackday winner

    They certainly were, but I'd argue that the current Yoshimura GSXR that Toni's been riding since 2017 has to be every bit as, if not more advanced with the current rules package.

    [​IMG]



    ......and interestingly I'm still waiting to see someone crack into the teens @ NJMP. I remember back in 2009 at the first AMA/DMG race they held their (they didn't race in 2008 there), Mladin managed a 1:20.9 in one of the practice sessions. That was on the old neutered DMG superbikes of the time (which were nearly SSTK by today's standards). In the 10 years since then that number has been chipped away by tenths, but still no one on 2 wheels has every managed a 1:19.9 or better there. I was expecting with the rules change and sticky Q tires that that would change, but it hasn't yet. If I'm not mistaken Rodger is still the fastest 2-wheeled lap around there with a 1:20.378 in Superpole in 2017.
     
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  18. Hoffman900

    Hoffman900 Well-Known Member

    NJMP is in dire need of a repave, and I’d be shocked if they had the money to do it. That was year old asphalt in 2009 and was its first full season. It was super abrasive when brand new, but 2009 the track was at it’s fastest for sure. The weather hasn’t been kind that weekend either.

    My guess if that track were repaved today, the top MA Superbikes would be in the 18s.

    It should also be pointed out that Road Atlanta was repaved in 2007 as well.

    So a quick look off the top of my head;
    Road Atlanta: Complete repave in 2007 (for the 2008 season)
    Laguna Seca: Complete repave for the 2006 season.
    NJMP: 2009 first full season. Asphalt put down in 2008.
    Utah: 2006 first season.

    Ben is good, but his time coincidentally happened when a bunch of tracks either just opened or were entirely repaved. A lot of the tracks these guys visit now, they’re running on 10yo + asphalt.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  19. TSWebster

    TSWebster Well-Known Member

    Now I understand this for GG since for all time just goes back to about 2005 for him, but you know better. Eddie Lawson and Freddie Spencer were fabulous on super bikes. Mladin ain’t in the same league with Fogarty or Bayliss.
     
  20. Steeltoe

    Steeltoe What's my move?

    Didn't some WSBK guys come over and try to win? And got beat.
     

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