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Splitting Neutral

Discussion in 'General' started by Trunxgp1224, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Trunxgp1224

    Trunxgp1224 Well-Known Member

    Why is it street bikes split neutral (1N2) I notice MotoGP is just N12 and that makes sense cause you don't want to pass neutral and risk missing the shift. But what benefit is there to a street bike to putting N in the middle, you can just as easily find N at a stop and click into first. Google just talks about engineers and panic situations and stabbing gears, etc.

    Only thing I can think is beginners not being able to count gears so a gear is put in the very bottom of the box.
    What say the beeb?
     
  2. panthercity

    panthercity Thread Killa

    MBG: Downshift to 4th, downshift to 3rd, downshift to 2nd, downshift through neutral to 1st. vs Downshift to 4th, downshift to 3rd, downshift to 2nd, downshift to 1st, downshift to neutral. WHOA! what happened to my engine braking!?!?
     
    badmoon692008 and Boman Forklift like this.
  3. Neutral is locked out on a GP bike. You have to pull a lever to let it go into neutral. It makes a lot of sense.
     
    Odilup likes this.
  4. Trunxgp1224

    Trunxgp1224 Well-Known Member

  5. inpayne

    inpayne Well-Known Member

    I thought it was the law.

    N on the bottom would be sweet if it was locked out like on motogp.
     
  6. Trunxgp1224

    Trunxgp1224 Well-Known Member

    Being locked out makes sense but it's still at the end of the order correct? Does N split 1-2 just to avoid someone going into neutral?
     
  7. N-1-2-3-4-5-6

    Beginning of the order (I think thats what you meant). My assumption has always been that street bikes are like that because it's cheaper to produce (you would have to build a neutral lock out mechanism and add more complexity to the bike) and it avoids true neutrals when you're doing hard down shifting. But the last part is an assumption.
     
  8. OGs750

    OGs750 Well-Known Member

    Now it makes sense why I saw Rossi get on his bike, kick down, then ride off. I figured he was just rolling away in second because it's not like those bikes are going to lug a start in second, but having N at the beginning and him clicking into 1st makes more sense.
     
  9. Trunxgp1224

    Trunxgp1224 Well-Known Member

    That's how the conversation started on facetubes. Friend who uses standard shift got super excited cause he saw Zarco click down before the sighting lap, and I had to break the news to him.

    I just didn't know the reason for splitting N on a street bike I guess it makes sense that you don't have to worry about hitting neutral that way.
     
  10. Johnny B

    Johnny B Cone Rights Activist

    I think Kawasaki H2's had neutral at the bottom. A friend of mine loaned somebody his H2 on the Fourth of July many years ago. A bit later he went by the house in the back of a police cruiser, showing off the handcuffs he was wearing. Apparently he did something stupid in front of them and in his haste to get away he forgot that he had to shift up for first gear.
     
  11. bitchcakes

    bitchcakes reluctant member

    My guess is that there is a neutral between every gear (as we sometimes learn inadvertently) just by the nature of a sequential transmission, with the one between 1 and 2 (where it makes the most sense) given a detent so it will maintain the neutral position. In other words, it is really easy to design a dog ring box with a neutral in that spot. To move it to the end of the shift sequence would require a whole new design and basically re-invent the wheel for no real reason.
     
    bored&stroked likes this.
  12. Black89

    Black89 Well-Known Member

    I thought you could only get to neutral off startup on motogp transmissions.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  13. snikwad

    snikwad Well-Known Member

    GP bikes only started doing that when seemless gearboxes came along. They were just like road bike prior to that.

    Road bikes are like that I think due to law. Before, manufacturers made controls and layout however they pleased. Then they made law to make all bikes the same.
    The 1N2 iirc, was done for the purpose of making N easier to get to in traffic and such, since you'd often be 1 to 2 then stop again. This way you'd only have to go 1 click vs 2 clicks each time you came to a stop.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. JBraun

    JBraun Well-Known Member

    I really don't see a problem with the way they are. If they want to change something about transmissions, they should all follow Kawi and make them cassette type. Do they still do that?

    GP bikes have very tight ratios and use all the gears also, compared to 2-6 for us. The bend at Road America is the only place I think I ever use 1st gear, and I've never had a neutral issue there.
     
  15. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    I'm pretty certain that I've watched a video in the past few weeks that answers that question. I can't remember if I posted it on here. I'll check later.
     
  16. CR750

    CR750 Well-Known Member

    Only the new CBR 1000 has a neutral between every gear, just ask McPint :).
     
  17. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

  18. G 97

    G 97 Garth

    I know several who use 1st gear for T5. I suppose it depends on bike and what the final gearing is being run.
     
  19. JBraun

    JBraun Well-Known Member

    That's true. I've tried it but that last downshift with a bunch of lean angle was sketchy. It's probably faster up the hill, but four downshifts uses up all my available talent.
     
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    That's what I've always thought after looking at how bike transmissions are built.
     

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