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So when does a trackday org really become a race org??

Discussion in 'General' started by CRA_Fizzer, Jul 20, 2018.

  1. G 97

    G 97 Garth

    And slower average lap times are still compiled from lap times. So lap times are what matters. When it's all said and done.
     
  2. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    You still haven't said what it is that you are considering said and done.

    And laptimes are still not the ultimate or only determining factor in who is a better rider. Faster rider yes, better is too subjective.
     
    flygirl likes this.
  3. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Better wins Championships. :D
     
  4. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Better at what wins championships? Better at getting more points - absolutely! :D
     
  5. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Yep, as well as other classes. Dude is on some vintage bikes. He runs in some of my races (500 classes) on one of the bikes but also in some vintage class which seems to be paired up with one of the unlimited races. So he's out on track at the same time as guys like Babuska, Heckles, and other fast guys while running track day novice pace. In our 500 classes, the top guys are generally about 35-40 seconds faster than him, so I can only imagine it's worse when he's in the unlimited one. I think it's down right dangerous.
     
    busa99 likes this.
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Sounds like they need to rethink their class combinations.
     
  7. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Among other things as well....it sure doesn't help when you get like 2 people with some oddball bikes that they want to race and then CCS has to figure out where those fit into the best. IMO, any class that has such few numbers consistently at each event, should just be eliminated. If you can't even get more than one row of people in a class, get rid of it. I understand if it happens once in a while because maybe it's a bad forecast or it's a track that's too far and some people don't show up, but when it keeps repeating, what's the point of having said class?
     
  8. britx303

    britx303 Boomstick Butcher…..

    Yes and No. The 2 or 3 of us in the classes with this main individual in particular,normally catch up with the first wave of newer bikes and start working through that traffic at the back of those packs that got waved first. Although there seems to be a growing concern for 1 individual in particular,there have been other ahrma guys that were scary as hell being out there with.
     
  9. britx303

    britx303 Boomstick Butcher…..

    Wait........like the 250/300's? 3 years ago at CCS it was like that......maybe 3 guys in the region. My first WERA weekend I brought a 250 and was only 1 of 2 signed up for E superstock(at the time)........and the current crop of 300 guys talked me out of racing the little bikes back then......and now they race them. Now look at the grids. Although with vintage at CCS its different in the sense younger guys are scared of carbs and 18"rear tires,so yeah those grids probably wont really grow. And FWIW, many of us on older bikes didnt want vintage classes.......we just wanted a place to run our vintage bikes,and most of us can run them right along side newer bikes.
     
  10. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    Mongo? Is that you? :D
    Yup. Gotta keep the ball in your court. Win or bin ain't gonna cut it.
     
  11. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Most, as in 2 out of 3? lol I just checked the results from one of the events at Summit Point. Every vintage race had anywhere from 2 to 4 people on the grid. You're right that this isn't a class that will grow. This is a class of bikes that's declining for reasons you mentioned, and also because they're harder to find, not that cheap when you do find them, availability of parts, etc. Meanwhile the 300s classes grew a ton in the last few years and I think they will continue to grow as there are more bikes to choose from, they're arguably the cheapest bikes to own/race, and more people are realizing how much fun they can be when raced against other similar bikes. The middleweights and unlimited classes have been pretty steady for a long time I think.

    I recall someone on this forum mentioning something a while back something that kinda stuck with me and I tend to agree now...if you want to race, get a bike that's competitive and conforms within the rules; don't get some oddball bike and then try to convince others to change the rules to make it fit you. There are lots of cool bikes out there, some new and some old, that I would like to race, but I won't because they don't really fit well in any classes, and the ones they fit in they're not competitive. Nevertheless, in this case, I'm positive it has nothing to do with the bike. I'm sure that guy's pace would be similar if he was on any other bike. The reason I mentioned the classes is mostly for the sake of points/podiums/wins etc. I used to race in a class that doesn't exist anymore (supertwins), but CCS got rid of it because of lack of people. And I'm totally fine with that...not much of a bragging point getting podiums when there are only 3-4 people in your class lol
     
  12. britx303

    britx303 Boomstick Butcher…..

    Totally agree with getting something less oddball......although ive been sticking with various FZR's since ive been racing,but its what I like and am comfortable on. Ive tried to get comfy on an SV to keep things simple and go with the flow......but I hated it. Picked up a 1st gen R6 now and love it. It runs well with newer 600 still,and since there is a "classic" class for it,I can go get a podium and make myself feel better:D
     
    sbk1198 likes this.
  13. 2blueYam

    2blueYam Track Day Addict

    As long as the blind spots are in the corners, the little bikes in the group should be carrying the same or greater corner speed, even if their lap times are a bit slower due to speed on the straights. If the blind spots are in high speed areas where the 1000s are going 20 mph faster or more I could see the issue at those tracks. I haven't seen many tracks that have a spot that is both blind and would have those kinds of speed differences due to HP. You might be able to count the kink in the front straight at VIR, but even there you should be able to see them far enough up ahead to adjust when riding at a track day pace. The other spot might be coming over the hill out of turn 2 at Pitt. I can't think of a spot like that at Road America, Blackhawk Farms, Autobahn (N, S or Full), Summit Main or Shenny , NJMP or NCBike.
     
  14. badmoon692008

    badmoon692008 Well-Known Member

    Last year there was a guy running 2 min laptimes at BHF and I'm pretty sure he got meatballed after a handful of laps in the GTU race.
     
  15. G 97

    G 97 Garth

    Hmm I'll have to go back thru all my post but i
    I dont think I’ve stated anything differently. I never stated that the better rider is the one who turns the fasted lap.
     
  16. Champer

    Champer Well-Known Member

    This has obviously gone super far off the original posts track, but with ZARS she uses the CRA's rulebook since she mostly does events at BIR (so personnel crossover is high). If referring to maybe a larger trackday organization that spans a larger geographic footprint... then yea pick your poison.
     
  17. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    Was it an expert guy on a blue/black R6? If so I think I know who you're probably talking about. I didn't think he was quite at 2 minutes, but I know I lapped him in a sprint race, like on the 6th lap or so, and I was among the slowest of the amateurs and started in the 2nd wave of course, running mid 20s only. Don't think it's the same guy cuz he never got meatballed. He was probably running high 40s or so.
     
  18. R1Racer99

    R1Racer99 Well-Known Member

    High 40's??? That's insane. Not trying to be a dick but if you're 30 seconds off the pace what's the point?
     
    badmoon692008 likes this.
  19. sbk1198

    sbk1198 Well-Known Member

    I talked to they guy because he happened to be pitted right across from me and my friend. Said he got bumped to expert a while back, but then took 2016 off and didn't race at all that year, and then got back into it in 2017. I guess having that year off really hurt his pace :confused:
     
  20. badmoon692008

    badmoon692008 Well-Known Member

    no, it was a guy on like a bmw 800... it might have even been GTL and not GTU... but I remember passing him like 6 times just in the morning warm up and he was dangerously slow.

    Edit: I just checked and it was GTL last september... he ran a 2:06, a 2:04, and a 2:02 and then I'm pretty sure got pulled off.
     
    sbk1198 likes this.

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