So when does a trackday org really become a race org??

Whats gray about it. A timed event doesn’t specifically dictate one type of event over the other. I’ve never heard of having the availability of timing at a trackday event to have an impact on the trackday providers event insurance or on the individual riders insurance.

The thing of it is, when implemented correctly timing can be a very beneficial tool. You really would be hard pressed to have beneficial training and instruction with out some measure of results.

 

I've been to trackdays in 3 different states with 6 different organizations over the last 8yrs and have never seen these mock races done.

 

You are doing business with the right trackday orgs then.

 

Me either, although I've seen groups of 6-7 guys put their own thing together on the last few sessions of a day, maybe technically not racing but they sure as fuck weren't going slow.

 

Makes sense. People should never leave their homes to do anything interesting.

 

lol 8 wide through the start finish straight and do a rolling start. If there is enough guys that are safe and fast I'd do that every session out. Thinking about it and I know personally I'd eventually be put in a position where I'm either passing someone like a huge asshole or loose and guess what I'd do without hesitation.....

 

Yes, I wouldn’t try that if Gehr is working pitout. You’d get the meat ball and have a nice sweltering hot wait on pitlane to get good and toasty before he rips you a good one. He runs a tight ship and that is why I always liked their track days. Does he still help with WERA west? I admittedly haven’t been to an event since I moved away to Canada and came back.

 

Well what I've been noticing lately is that the "racing" they do at TDs lately (at least the ones I've seen) has been restricted to only like a 300-class racing series, no more of the bigger bikes.

 

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times...those kinds of passing rules do a disservice to the upcoming riders and the riders in the group to which that upcoming rider gets promoted. They have little experience passing/getting passed and then they get thrown in with faster riders with no passing rules? W_T_F? It's a completely ass-backwards mindset to even think it's a good idea. It's not, at all, a safe approach.

As it has to do with trackday "races", maybe, if they even think "outlaw" racing is worth doing, it should be limited to the advanced riders.

Timed trackdays for classification? NO! Too many times (even if just once) I've been thrown in a lower class cuz I never rode with the particular org and/or it's a new-to-me track. To judge someone's proficiency by lap times alone says nothing about that rider's ability to assess traffic, handle their ride, etc.
Timing a rider that's participating in "schooling" to track progress is different but, even then, everyone gets faster as they learn the track. The timing is only helpful to gauge progress if the student already knows the track. On the second day of a two-day school, or the student's second event day, using the timer would mean something. Otherwise, it's a false indicator...but people sell BS all the time and suckers lap it up.

Maybe there needs to be a standard by which trackdays are allowed to operate. There's at least one track I won't ride and one trackday org with which I will not ride. Their protocols, rider classifications - and the disparaging inconsistencies that arise from said classification, more often than not make their events complete shit...at least in my experiences. Either way, it ended up being that we paid for time we didn't get or we're waiting out yet another red flag.

 

For me, I liked that TPM had mock races because it allowed me to get my feet wet with racing before I made the next step up to CCS or WERA. I know, I know, I could have just went to an event and would have been fine but to me it was a good common ground where I could race two races in the middle of my 6 sessions and plus it was relatively cheap for the amount of track time I had. I didn't consider it "real" racing per se but I definitely up'd my pace just by being in that type of environment. The end goal for me was to always go racing but to me I appreciated the track day orgs providing me a stepping stone till I felt comfortable to do so. To each their own though

 

technically it was my wife's policy. But it took nearly a year to settle the claim after 3 rejections.
In the end... the person in charge of the benefits & medical coverage at her company pointed out where the issue
was. Here is the wording.

 

Wow, I sure hope you don't pay much for that policy to restrict living so much. Always hated big brother looking out for my best interests when the bottom line for them is all they actually care about...

 

From what I remember this seems similar to what I saw on my policy.

 

Yep.... Fell off a Bicycle at 150 Maam.....

 

When I was racing I would always ask the insurance people specifically if a racing accident was covered, multiple people seemed confused by my question and just said yes without checking into it. I always wondered if I would have recourse if they decided not to cover it. Maybe getting it in writing would be a good idea.

 

Right, because no novice trying to chase an expert plate has ridden "out of control and on the verge of crashing..."

 

I'm with Mongo on this one. Usually it's 'someone told me about some guy that said his coverage was denied....' or 'I heard that coverage will be denied if you're racing...', but, I don't recall hearing 1st hand of someone getting medical coverage denied because they were racing. Perhaps what they're talking about is that their vehicle insurance won't cover the medical costs, but, haven't heard that health insurance won't cover the medical costs. Anyone have 1st hand experience with this?

 

Then as you learn the track, get faster, etc...you change groups.

That is how Jennings does it. Ive seen it happen while I was there. If someone sticks out like a sore thumb (too fast or too slow), they will start checking that persons lap times. Maybe they just had a bad session, or were learning the track, so be it. The next session they track their lap times again. If they continue to be too slow/fast for that group, then they are moved.

Actually, someone's lap times says everything about their proficiency as a rider. That is the whole point of lap times and the whole reason people look at and talk about lap times. If someone runs a :32, then they are assumed to be a more proficient rider than someone that runs a :42.

But it isn't a hard, immediate move (as it seems you are making it out to be). It isn't like you are signed up in Advanced, go out in the first session and run several seconds off pace while you get warmed up and learn the track, and are immediately moved to Intermediate. That isn't how it works. If someone is regularly/consistently running lap times that are more suited to a higher/lower group, then they are moved.

If you are new to the track, or just want to cruise around and have fun, then so be it. Nobody is going to "force" you to run Advanced lap times if you don't want to. But you also shouldn't feel entitled to be in Advanced, just because you consider yourself an Advanced rider, if you aren't running Advanced type lap times.

 

That's why you're supposed to list those things on your insurance or have an appraisal.