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Rules Questions for "C" SS

Discussion in 'Information For New Racers' started by Gerry Gentry, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    Does anybody know if the WERA West group has a contact person that I can reach out to. I have some questions about equipment and would like to discuss it. I've left two messages with the main office in Georgia but haven't heard back from them.

    Thanks,
    Gerry
     
  2. PistolPete

    PistolPete Fuck Cancer...

    Ask here, someone will have your answer.
     
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  3. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    double bubbles and slicks = yes
    aftermarket masters = no
     
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  4. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the replies. I did just get a call back from a very nice lady in the Wera main office. She was able to confirm my interpretation of the rules for SS. My question was: Can a "C" SS bike from the same family (i.e GSXR 600) have parts from another model year put on them to equalize the difference in potential performance advantage. For example: Can a fork/brake assembly from a 2011 GSXR 600 (Big Piston Fork and Brembo Calipers) be put on a 2006 GSXR 600? As you all probably know the answer is no. In my opinion it would only equalize the two bikes but per the rules that change would bump the 2006 bike into the SuperBike category and that requires a very large check book if you want to prepare a bike to run at the pointed end of the grid. Don't get me wrong, the rules are the rules and the system works but it seems that some updates between production bikes of the same family (i.e. GSXR 600) would allow older bikes to compete on level ground with newer bikes. Naturally there would have to be limits and that gets sticky but I've seen it worked out in other forms of racing. I think it would likely increase the number competitive bikes in a respective category ( "C" SS) because you wouldn't have to start with the latest model available as a basis to prepare a SS for competition. Bigger fields, better racing, more trash talk, more comradery, and maybe more fun. You know, all the reasons we race. Your thoughts?

    Gerry
     
  5. mpusch

    mpusch Well-Known Member

    I think that the performance difference for club racing between CSB and CSS probably isn't that high. I run a SS machine in both and get my butt kicked equally between them :D
     
  6. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    It would make for some interesting classes. Find the best chassis, any generation, add the latest/greatest everything from its grandchildren. :D
     
  7. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    And therein exposes one of the perceived and potential drawbacks or maybe advantages. I'm not really sure. What I've seen in automobile racing (Porsche) is that there are some allowable changes that span the entire production range and some that are era specific (i.e. models year from 2001 to 2004 can...). Not an easy system to get put into place but it can be done and does typically allow older machines to "catch up" to newer machines.

    Gerry
     
  8. fastfreddie

    fastfreddie Midnight Oil Garage

    There's really nothing short of an administrative "No" stopping you from racing it in a same or larger displacement class of your choosing, but you won't get any points and podium finishes would be DQ-ed.
     
    rk97 likes this.
  9. drop

    drop Well-Known Member

    Very very few people have a true 600 Superbike. Everyone runs their superstock bike in Superbike
     
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  10. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    What makes you think the newer bikes or components are faster or better?
    Your 2006 is eligible for V8...lol. You can run it in SSB middle weight as well if over 40.
    Theres lots of classes to run a 2006 GSXR 600 SS in despite it being 14yrs old... its still a pretty good runner at the club level. The biggest racing expense would be tires and entry fees.
    Granted the complaint is the defective masters of that vintage... I would bet alot of loot you could change it to a stock master from another bike and nobody is going to know or protest.
     
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    WERA West is just a region of WERA not a separate org so the normal contact info works - phone is 770-720-5010, email is [email protected]. Here is also a great place for answers to pretty much anything you can possibly think of :D

    Not sure what is up with the messages - Emily is great about returning them although we have been pretty busy with Talladega last weekend and getting ready for Nelson this one.
     
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Glad Emily got back to you.

    FWIW - you could do what you're looking at and still be legal for Vintage 8 on the 06 bike. Superbike however does NOT take a big checkbook to run, the fast riders in C Superbike are on Superstock legal bikes 99 percent of the time.

    The main issue with updating and backdating is the possibility of making a true superbike by doing so that would be much faster than the brand new superstock machines. That isn't what the SS class is for, that is what the SB class is for and why we actually offer way more superbike classes than superstock. We like people building things. They're also easier to enforce :D You could of course work it out but then you'd need a team of people doing research and rulebook the size of an encyclopedia to cover every possibility on every model of bike out there, it just isn't worth it to add a couple of bikes to the grid. Especially with as few real changes have been made in the last decade, fast riders still win on old machines with only legal SS mods, if you're not able to keep up with them then your focus needs to be less on the bike and more on your riding, get training/coaching, more track time and so on.
     
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  13. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    All interesting perspectives and options and probably we will try one or more of them. Keeping in mind that this is amateur racing (back to a real job on Monday) the real aim is to go fast, make some friends, have some fun, and keep the shinny side up. However, having fielded racing teams in auto racing (Formula Ford, F2000, GT1, S2000, etc.) and this being our first foray into two wheeled road race machines, I do know that advancements in design and updated parts can result in more performance (i.e. lower lap times) but not always. I think it is amazing how static/good the design of these bikes has been since about 2006 on and I can see how a good rider on a well tuned 06 can run at the front of the pack. It seems most of the real big advancements have been with the electronic controls systems.

    I am aware of the M/C problem that Suzuki had with that bike but I think they resolved it with the recall/Service bulletin they did. Right now the bike has a Brembo M/C and we will have to change that.

    I believe it was Emily that called me back and she was really pleasant to talk with.

    The overhead to manage the update/back date reg's could be a real chore. The organizations that I have seen do it have volumes of "...you can do this to this year but not that year..." and as you point out it seems that eventually one or two combinations seems to be the most competitive. It take years to develop that system.

    BTW,
    I just provide the technical side, shop facilities, wrench turning, and of course cash. My sons do the riding. I'm a little long in tooth to be swinging my leg over one of those hot rods. Besides, I like the security of four wheels! :)

    Regards,
     
  14. kenessex

    kenessex unregistered user

    Just a couplr of ideas. If you are just getting started with a motorcycle roadrace team then just get bikes that are legal and safe for your riders. Spend the money on setting up the stock suspension and brakes and reliability. Leave the trick parts in the shop, even if they are legal, until you know that you need them to improve laptimes. Do not waste track time working on the bike in the pits.

    Emily is super nice!!!
     
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  15. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Others might correct me but I suspect you are over thinking it. Let them ride what they have. IMO even run the Brembo and run SS and SB. Gets them seat time and fun. If they are the weird person that actually is on the podium in year one then you can reevaluate. But I suspect you will have a lot of fun, learn a lot and have a better idea on where the future should go racing what you have for a year. That includes dedication/interest from your boys. Have fun with the kids as they will remember this for a lifetime and that will be the best part for you also I suspect. Good luck and enjoy.
     
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  16. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    No substitute for seat time and we will most likely race multiple classes once the rider(s) gets licensed. Don't really expect to see the podium anytime soon. We are getting to the track at least once a month but trying for more. We are pretty much just making sure the bike is well prepared and fresh. Fresh seals and wheel bearing. Fresh brakes with S/S lines front and rear. Elka Shock (came with the bike) but stock fork (.95) both freshened. ECU flashed by DANO's and Dynojet Autotune module for the PCV to keep the trims right at the various elevations we will run at (Willow, Button Willow, Auto Club, Vegas, Chuckawalla, Phoenix, Sears Point). Quick shift (DANO's). Leo Vince full SBK system. Staying away from the engine unless it needs it (regular oil changes, filters, etc,). -1/+2 on the drive with fresh 520 chain and Vortex sprockets. Switched to Pirelli SC2's and warmers from Diablo TD's last weekend and bike and rider responded well (big smiles). Pretty much just doing the "monkey see monkey do" selectively from walking and talking in the pits to other riders and teams. Taking time to do detailed setup and note taking and copious notes every session. Old habits die hard but experience dictates that a well prepared machine usually makes for a better weekend. My rule: bike goes in the trailer when it is completed, setup, and ready for tech. Sometimes that can make for really late nights. Never say never but I really try to avoid finishing the prep at the track. Staying away from giving Kyle my AMEX # for a set of Ohlins cartridges and a TTX. Not really the plan for this bike.

    BTW,
    It looks like one of the groups down at Chuckawalla has a licensing program that WERA recognizes. Looking at that for getting the rider licensed this fall/winter. Race schools/licensing weekends are a little scarce right now. Good or bad idea? He (rider) has also talked with Josh Hayes about some coaching.

    And yes, Emily really was super nice!

    Thanks for the comments and insight.

    Gerry
     
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Chuckwalla works as do some of the track day groups and we will be having a school at Willow Springs in November at our event there.
     
  18. TurboBlew

    TurboBlew Registers Abusers

    another tool for training is the minis at Adams. Good way to get seat time cheap on a stock 100, ttr125, nsr or grom
     
  19. Gerry Gentry

    Gerry Gentry Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info about Willow in November. We'll be up there in September at a track day. That might work for us and would be a second time on the that track.

    Mini's at a Adams. Didn't know that, thanks.

    Gerry
     
  20. Boman Forklift

    Boman Forklift Well-Known Member

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