Ronald Reagan is coming to....

No, it's SlowAndScared. They go together. Who are you calling "boy," youngster? You need to learn some respect for your elders. You can call me "Sir."

 

I got you by at least a decade revisionist amateur historian boy!

Rodger

 

So your birthdate in your profile is a lie? That's good to know. As good as your "promise" earlier.

Lawyers!

 

Unlike you I don't rely on a computer for educational purposes.

Here, I'll help you out:

 

It is a lie! When I log on my profile it has 12/13/54 but when I click on my profile it says 12/31/69. I'll ask Mongo what gives.

I'm CORC eligible -- are you?

Got more than one book amatuer revisionist history boy?

And what is your b-day kid?

And I'm still waiting for what is probably an amusing moral justification for the killing of thousands on innocents. Didn't you once say that the Japs were training the kids to fight the US so we had to kill them? If that was you, you refused to provide any support for that interesting anecdote as well. You just wlked away in a huff. I'm still waiting for that proof as well, not that it would justify what was done.

Rodger

 

Not everything Old man Karl wrote was bad.

I'm all for certain programs labeled as Democrat or even Liberal in nature. Now when it goes too far (like many Liberal "spoon feed the lowest common denominator" do) that's when I get all uppity.
Prime example would be Welfare. A good thing as it was written, but went horribly wrong at some point. A leg up turned into a free ride all too easily and quickly.

And Yo, The Talmadge Wreckin' crew were the hardest of the hardcore. Or maybe a bunch of stupid whitebread suburbanites, I don't know.

 

I am a Talmadge! Mom's mother was a Talmadge. From the Catskills. You?

R.

 

And btw, I'm a second amendment absolutist. And a hawk (according to some). Go figure. teh old labels of liberal and conservative don't much matter anymore, except in name calling.

R.

 

OK, I'll let you slide this time. Don't think I'll let it happen again though!

Nope! Not an old man yet, old man! My 40th birthday is about 1.5 months past the end of this racing season. Next year I'll give CORC a try.

Not many - about 7 shelves-full, throughout the house. Here's a couple that are close enough for the digital camera to grab without me leaving the office:

It's a day for rejoicing! :up:

Sorry, I'm not here to provide "amusing moral justification." I did once say that the Japanese government was training civilians - women, children, old men - to repel the expected invasion force. Shit man, there's films of it at the National Archives and in Japan! If you think it's an anecdote - well - I just don't know what else to say to you, so again, I won't bother.

 

You specifically utilized the "Japs are arming children" as moral justification for the deaths of innocents. If you have rethought that stance, fine. But don't deny making it.

R.

 

Umm, no, counselor, I did not make that statement. This is exactly what I said:

 

Justification for dropping the A bomb? To save the upwards of the one Million US troops that were projected to be wounded and to lose their lives in the invasion of Japan. Plus the countless Japanese who also would have died. But then again I wasn't part of the debate on whether to use atomic weapons.

Don't look to me for apologies for the US dropping two atom bombs on Japan.

 

I thought he died banging some bimbo in the pool room?

History? It's all fictional, doods.

David

 

we didn't do it to save lives. the Japs had already offered to surrender -- we were just arguing about terms of surrender. So it was not to save lives -- it was a political issue re post war political relations -- like we wanted to send a message to the Russkies. I'm sure the kids understood though.

Dave: where did the Talmadge thing come from? See my earlier post.

Slow, etc said:
Umm, no, counselor, I did not make that statement. This is exactly what I said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The civilian population, including women and children, was training en masse to repulse an invasion force. The calculation was that fewer people would ultimately die on both sides if the A-bombs were dropped than if they were not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slow, I rest my case. Nice try. Bad justification.

Later girls. Sushi awaits!! (How ironic!!!)


Flame away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rodger

 

In no book, article or on any show I have seen were the Japanese EVER mentioned to be negotiating a surrender. Even after the first bomb was dropped, the Japanese were ignoring pleas to surrender. Just the opposite, they were preparing their civilians to fight to the death to protect the Junta.

Talmadge street was one of the places/ streets I lived on in Poughkeepsie. sorry for the confussion.

Sushi: get me some. Spicy Tuna, some salmon rolls and some Tempura. NOW lawyer boy!

 

There have been several revisionist books written claiming that the Japanese were trying to negotiate surrender; Rodger probably saw a synopsis of one on the History Channel or something.

The fact is that on June 6, 1945, The Japanese Supreme Council published a document called "Fundamental Policy to be Followed henceforth in the Conduct of the War," which said, "we shall prosecute the war to the bitter end."

The final defense plan that Rodger denies exists was called "Operation Decision," and provided for 10,000 suicide planes, fifty-three infantry divisions and twenty-five brigades. 2,350,000 trained troops (everyone they had left), 4 million civilian employees of the military, and a militia made up of 28 million civilian men, women and children. The militia had ancient muzzle-loaders, bamboo spears, and bow/arrows. The Japanese government expected the casualties to be in the 10-20 million range. They planned to go ahead anyway. The order came straight from the Diet.

Allied estimates of casualties to an invasion force were 1 million.

Total deaths from the A-bombing of Hiroshima: approx 100,000. Total deaths from the A-boming of Nagasaki: 74,800.

The Japanese emperor had been told in February 1942 that the war was unwinnable. In 1943 the Japanese Navy acknowledged that the American Navy would defeat them. In 1944 Tojo was thrown out. None of this mattered to the Japanese government.

Despite Rodger's pathetic claim that the Japanese tried to surrender prior to August 6, the Japanese government did not make a decision to surrender until August 14, five days after the 2nd bomb was dropped. The only reason they did was because they were led to believe that the US had two more bombs ready to drop on them.

Rodger has no case and he knows it, but like any skilled lawyer he's trying to present the tatters in the best possible light.

 

Hey Lawyer boy. you owe me $37.46

Because of your mention of Sushu I got hungry for it and ran out and got some. Yummy, but somehow I feel you are responsible so I'm sueing you for $37.46 in actual damages and 2 Trillion dollars for mental anguish.

Know any good lawyers who'll take my case against you?

 

Rodger, you ignorant left-wing slut. Can't believe you are playing the baby killer card. Yup, babies pictures were forever flashed into the sidewalk, along with mommies pushing the prams. But, didn't some Chinese babies die from the Japanese atrocities (Nanking massacre) or the death march to Bataan (they were someone's babies). What about the saturation bombing of Germany, babies died there also and the little jewish babies that were turned into lamp shades. War is freakin hell is an understatement. One of the saddest facts of life, people die horrible deaths during a war. It was the US purpose to stop the war immediately. If Japan was so ready to surrender before the A-bombs then why were two dropped. I think if I was Emperor Herohito and had surrender on my mind, after that first bomb, I'd had all my generals lined up, on their knees, mouths open and their teeth folded back. It wouldn't taken long to get some communication across. Sure, didn't after the second bomb. Only one term in the surrender, hmmmm.

David

 

Guys, Jesus Christ!!....Rodger just wanted to borrow a book.....

 

Read "Ghost Soldiers" someday, Rog.. It's about the Bataan death march and the rescue mission to rescue to survivors. Read what the Japanese solders did to the Philipians that offered aid to the US soldiers on the march. They tied a pregant women that gave a soldier a piece of bread to a tree and, well, let your imagination do the rest, and it's probably worst than you imaged... Eastern war philospy looks down on those who surrender, lower than a dog was a quote I read once.

I too have read about a Japanese surrender before the bomb was dropped, but the terms were more like a "time-out" than a surrender. Yeah, that woulda been smart for us to accept.

You mention (or someone did) than the reason the US dropped the A-bombs was to send a statement to the USSR to leave us alone, we be the bad kids on the block. One thing that we may never be sure of, but that seemed to work, they never attacked us. Or it could have been that Stalin was too busy killing his own people... But one might be able to argue that if that did indeed give the Soviets pause and they didn't attack us, then for that reason alone it was worth it from our point of view. Don't forget, the Japanese EMPIRE attacked us first...

I'm with Dave K, don't ask for us to apologize...