Cars are not bikes and react wildly differently. Chicanes suck. That is a given. But that chicane makes an area that isn't too unsafe to ride just a little safer which is good. I am curious - how is it no bikes were on the track when it was first built?
We were running cars there when the facility was originally built. I believe I was one of the first 20 cars on that track.
I'm still lost. Is your point that a bike wasn't the first vehicle on the track? If so your car got beat by a steamroller
We raced there in 2004, which was the first WERA event there, if not mistaken. I think between either Sam Gaige and I - one of us has the most laps/wins on the original course, on two wheels (for the limited credibility that lends itself). I've fortunately not crashed there, but had friends that did. We subsequently went and chipped in with a buddy to buy haybales for another org to put in that section - when races were held and the org didn't want to do anything at all there. It's been a known issue and the owners have always done what they could, to make it safer over the years (including pushing the guard rail back). Ultimately - nobody likes a chicane - even there, as that turn has a ton of character. But I think we're past the point of not putting safety as the top priority. Especially at a MotoAmerica-sanctioned track.
Eddie - we were there before official opening in 2002 and ever since. I am friends with one of the original investors and owners. He’s long since out of the picture Also - again - that turn has changed significantly since then.
So does that make it "safe"? And has it changed since MotoAmerica tested there, before last year? No one is debating that it hasn't improved. Over the course of various "General Managers" and the current owners (who are great), everyone is aware of it. But when a 1k is 140+ at 50+ lean angle, where do you draw the line for "safe"? If the answer is, trackdays or club races are slower - that's obviously based on the attendance. And also - how can that be proven, when rider/bike collisions need to be taken into account. Not trying to get into a debate with you - we all prefer that corner, sans chicane. But let's just be honest about it, and not throw smoke at the factor of overall/general safety.
Eddie, not trying to get in a debate with you either - not sure that everyone recognized that the turn has improved. I don't think anybody is trying to throw smoke at the safety factor. But an awful lot of MA guys flat out missed that chicane last year while learning it. I'd sure hate to see somebody come smoking through there with red mist, miss it, while somebody is coming out of it.... To me, that's way more dangerous particularly for the inexperienced racer than as it is. I don't think anybody can objectively measure the risk of either. Right now it's all opinion - which is exactly why some guys who ran it last year thought it made things worse, and some guys thought it made it safer. There is probably basis for both opinions.
You actually have to put your ass on it, Bruce and then ride it. Besides, you have bigger fish to fry with pullup bars in door frames, no?
Emerson hasn't ridden it with the chicane, he crashed the weekend before MA PITT last year so he hasn't gotten to ride it yet. Have you ridden it with the chicane? I'm not asking if you've talked to people who have, I'm asking if you have. Everyone is free to form their own opinion on the chicane after having ridden it, but I think you should ride it before forming that opinion. Please don't base it off of other's opinions (including my own). You are correct, there were several people that totally missed the chicane last year, myself included (several times) when I was trying to figure it out. But again, in my opinion, as long as you make ANY effort to make the chicane, the chance you will hit someone exiting the chicane is almost nothing. If you were on the original race line hauling ass through there and someone exited the chicane, sure, they would cross paths at that point, but that's not even really possible with the curbing down. We all agree that the original turn is fun as hell. Some here are going as far as to say that all chicanes suck (but have obvious benefits). I am going out on a limb to say this chicane actually doesn't suck, it's actually kind of fun and challenging once you get over the fact you're not using the original turn anymore. If Sean finds a way to use it, I would just ask that you give it a chance before you form your own opinion.
Eric, not exactly a fair statement. Nobody has run that chicane except for the people who either ran the single MotoAmerica round or the Triple Crown round there on one weekend last year. However, that being said - we were pitted next to you for the MotoAmerica round..... So....... If the only justification to express an opinion here is if you ran it, there are very very very very very few people that should have posted here....... Just sayin.....
I'd be more of a fan of the chicane if there was better/more visible curbing there. It's in a terrible spot on track (good logistically - not arguing that), as the track goes slightly up hill right there, so as you drive hard out of the left hander, you literally can't see the little 3" tall curbing. They did put in specific braking markers there, but honestly I think the long time track riders that have turned 100's of laps there without it are actually at more of a disadvantage than the MA guys simply because they haven't built the muscle memory like we have. I tip toed through that thing and still was at a crawling pace, it completely ruins the flow of the track on that back section (I get it, that's the entire point but still). Still prefer the corner without it, even if the curbing was fixed.
I ran the triple crown so I’ve experienced the chicane. It does its job but like WheelBearing said it’s very hard to see even anticipating it. First two laps of practice I blew it but then you learn it. I hate chicanes. That was one of the best sections of the track IMO (didn’t say safest). Chicanes have their purpose but no doubt ruin the flow of a track that was designed without the chicane. I will say that with the other improvements that have been made that section is wayyy safer even without the chicane now. Ride safe, AAron
Can someone point out or at least graphically represent where and how this chicane is configured? Im presuming its instin lieue of the kink at the end of the back straight leading into to long 2 corner end of lap?