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oil???

Discussion in 'Tech' started by repars, Apr 24, 2005.

  1. repars

    repars Active Member

    Guys-

    I'm looking for a good oil to run in my bike. I've been told not to use oil that doesn't have any friction modifiers? I've heard Amsoil is the best but I don't feel like spending the extra cash. They don't sell the Mobile 1 motorcycle oil near me, does any one have any susgestions. Any good automotive oils that I can use in my bike? My friend with a CRF 450 swears by Shell Rotella Syntehtic desil oil??? Let me know what you think? I would appreciate any advice.

    Thanks
    JP
     
  2. GixxerBlade

    GixxerBlade Oh geez

  3. (diet)DrThunder

    (diet)DrThunder Why so serious, son?


    Your friend is right...possibly the best bike oil on Earth, $13/gal at Wal Mart.

    Read this...


    ...then this.

    My good friend Dennis (and many others) swear by Amsoil as well. Amsoil is also excellent oil, but I just can't see spending the extra dosh, but that's me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2005
  4. beathiswon

    beathiswon Well-Known Member

    Yup, Shell Rotella synth. Use it for racing, touring, commuting. Never had any problems.
     
  5. stabber

    stabber Well-Known Member

    I use mobil 1 truck & suv 5w 40 from walmart its $5 a quart. I used the rotella synthetic but some would burn off and I would have to add more oil. I have never had to add with the mobil 1.:)
     
  6. stickboy274

    stickboy274 Stick-a-licious Tire Dude

    I use regular Rotell T. I get it by the 5 gallon pail pretty cheap. About $35 or so.

    I use it in everything. My powerstroke, the wifes escape, my race bike, generators, dirtbikes, etc.....
     
  7. GypsyRacing

    GypsyRacing V7 Gypsy

    As Diet Dr. Thunder mentioned...............I am a fan of Amsoil, and I would recommend spending the extra dough for the quality.

    I have used the Mobil one in race bikes before (Walmart), but I would stay away from the friction modifiers, anything with Moly, or teflon.

    Good cheap oil............Castrol GTX............autozone, pepboys.

    I don't use a quality synthetic oil to boost HP, it's for protection.

    Racing is expensive, we all cut corners were we think we can get away with it. I used old ratty tires for practice............after my last highside..........I will look for another place to cut corners.

    It's up to you.............cut corners where you want, it's your choice.

    If you deceide you want to try a good quality synthetic, drop me a [email protected]
     
  8. beathiswon

    beathiswon Well-Known Member

    Who's to say using a cheaper oil is cutting corners?? Lots of people have their favorite oil that they swear by. Thats why the shelves are stocked with umpteen versions. Whats missing here is some hard scientific evidence on what is best. Unfortunately I havn't found any truly valid tests that can prove any oil is the best. We can only make an educated guess with some basic oil composition info. Another question is that is the best really nescessary? If you run your bike for say 100,000 miles with no oil problems and you've spent $1.25qt on your oil, would you feel the need to buy the $12qt stuff?? Let's see that's an oil change every 2,000 miles. For the cheap stuff that's roughly $250, for the expensive stuff $2,400. That's an extreme example but that can buy a lot of race tires. I've seen just as many bikes blow up with Motul, Amsoil, Mobil 1 etc. as any other oil. It seems the most crucial thing is to just change your oil at least every 2,000 miles with whatever makes you happy and then just ride and forget about it!!
     
  9. GypsyRacing

    GypsyRacing V7 Gypsy

    There are tons of test results out there.............you just have to look.

    How about these.........

    http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/mcf_mcv_april_2005.pdf

    If you want to keep your oil in your racebike or street bike longer than 2000 miles...........sample your oil and send it off to Amsoil. They will tell you if you are still good to go beyond where you are now.

    How is saving money on a cheaper oil for less protection/performance (see independent ASTM test results) not cutting corners?

    As for the logic............why are there so many different brands on the shelves..........because people do not educate themselves. People buy and use Slick50, and that stuff is terrible stuff for your engine.................Marketing.............people can sell anything to anyone if they want to.

    I don't care what brand of oil you use...........just understand what you are getting for your $1.50/ Qt. versus $12/qt. If you don't see the benefit in spending the extra money..........don't spend it.

    Your choice, but just educate yourself on what you are doing.

    I am not an expert, I am just trying to do my own research....have you found any test results showing Mobile 1 topping the charts?



    :up:
     
  10. GSXR600

    GSXR600 Well-Known Member

    Ive used Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Mobil1, Shell, Valvoline all in my bike and can't tell a damn difference....and nothing is broken.
     
  11. (diet)DrThunder

    (diet)DrThunder Why so serious, son?

    You know, I firmly beleive that Amsoil is absolutely top-notch stuff, but when I read those pages, they just scream 'propaganda' to me.

    First, why does each graph compare against different oils? Bogus. Second, if the results of the tests actually translate into increased engine protection, where are the tests that simply measure engine wear v. other oils over time in real motorcycles? Third, there is no scale for reference in the tests they publish. For example, the range of results for the 10 W 40 Shear stability test is 6.02 (Amsoil) to 4.39 (Royal Purple). How do we know that the acceptable range isn't from 1.25 - 25.0? Maybe the differences we're being shown aren't even statistically significant?

    I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just pointing out that there is an awful lot of hype around the subject, and precious little unbiased info.

    Lab tests arre great (but meaningless when the opponents are different from test to test), but I don't race a lab, I race a motorcycle, with a real engine in it.

    When I decide to race in the "3-ball wear test" class, I'll give these numbers another read.

    <insert your own favorite 3-ball joke here :) >
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2005
  12. GypsyRacing

    GypsyRacing V7 Gypsy

    Dave:

    How could you do a real world test and recreate exact conditions for each oil tested.............you can't. Lab test results are in a controlled environment..........a base line.............under the best conditions.

    Amsoil is a funny company I have found..........they boast having the best products. They challenge other manuafacturers to one up them..........on occasion they do. And that is why the new Amsoil motorcycle oils have a new formula...........so they can continue to boast being the finest in Synthetic oil. Yes, they increased the price too!

    The question is what is good enough for you.

    Any endurance teams out there with an insight on life expectancy in a race motor?

    :beer:
     
  13. xsr71x

    xsr71x Old Member

    Dave

    We did the 4 hour race with Amsoil in the bike....no clutch slip, no ring wear, nothing but good stuff!
     
  14. (diet)DrThunder

    (diet)DrThunder Why so serious, son?

    Did you notice the very first thing in my post, where I said that I have no doubt at all that Amsoil is top-shelf stuff? If not, I have no doubt that Amsoil is top-shelf stuff. :D

    Dennis, I understand the potential usefulness of lab tests, but the way they are presented by Amsoil is pretty obviously skewed. Surf around the web site...almost every test result shown has at least a few different oils as compared-to products. Doesn't this seem shady, at least a little?

    I'm not saying that they are foisting crap oil on us (see above). I'm saying that if the differences actually were born out in real-world motor longevity, the tests would be a little more straight-forward. I believe them when they say that the wear scar in the 4 ball test is smaller than other oils. What I want to know is, if I change my oil every other race weekend (I do), what is the real benefit of Amsoil (or any other 'premium' oil) over Rotella T Synthetic, or Mobil 1, or whatever?

    My guess is that there is none...

    I also don't mean to pick on Amsoil in particular, it just happens that it came up in the conversation. The bottom line for me is that I am absolutely certain that anyone who uses Amsoil (or Motul, or whatever) is positively getting top-notch protection in their motors. Period. However, until I can learn about some sort of empirical evidence that (for example) Rotella T synthetic is not doing as good a job at $13/gallon, I'm off to Wal Mart. :)
     
  15. (diet)DrThunder

    (diet)DrThunder Why so serious, son?

    Thread JACK!

    Dennis, how is your hip coming along? I hope you feel better soon!
     
  16. beathiswon

    beathiswon Well-Known Member

    HEEELLLLOOO!! Amsoil runs there own test on their own website and AMAZING, their oil comes out on top. You call that proof??? And yes I've seen all the magazine tests and tests from manufacturers ad's etc., etc. but none of them can definitively say what is best for what. Valid, controlled tests could be done using real engines under real racing conditions but the cost would be so huge I guess that's why we haven't seen any done before. I imagine most of the oils out there are very good quality but my question has always been is a difference noticeable in real world conditions and worth paying 5-10 times the price? Having put over 500,000 miles on the road and some on the track I can't say that I've seen much difference.
     
  17. Moonpie

    Moonpie Yo Yo Yo!

    I use free Motul 5100 cuz I know a dude that works at a dealer.......:D

    But you guys are right in thinking oil is oil is oil. I have known to many good mechanics that told me the same thing. However, I did notice a distinct difference when I tried Castrol superbike oil..maybe it was blow-by I was feeling:rolleyes:
     
  18. (diet)DrThunder

    (diet)DrThunder Why so serious, son?

    To be fair, I'm not actually saying that I think oil is oil is oil...but I am saying that I think there are oils available for a fraction of the cost of the premiums that are at least equal in performance by any meaningful measure.
     
  19. xsr71x

    xsr71x Old Member

    If it helps any I know the reason that several factories now fill with Mobil 1 come to one man....If the Mobil 1 group wouldn't have been paying him what they were and someone else was it could have been Redline or shell or motul.. it was all a time and place thing... oh and money helped!
     
  20. stabber

    stabber Well-Known Member

    I have a test that sportrider did and amsoil came out on top with mobil 1 in second. That wasnt a test that amsoil did it was by a independent lab. You can tell which oil is better by scientific means and synthetic oil is waaay better than dino oil. I would use amsoil but I'm to lazy to go through the trouble to find a dealer. I change my oil at 4000k and sometimes longer and I run my bike hard. I would rather do that than use dino oil and change it every 2000k and I bet my oil is in better shape when I change it also.:) BTW there is no friction modifiers (moly) in the 5w 40 mobil 1 synthetic :)
     

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