Nelson Ledges...

Riding on tracks is more popular than ever - which is a great thing. Roadracing overall is more popular or at least as popular - worldwide. Less people are attending club races and less are attending races in person. However some of that is tv access and net access so there is give and take. Less people at the track though hurts the sport for sure. Club racing is absolutely less popular. The why is pretty simple, you no longer have to race as the only way to get on track. Track days absolutely hurt club racing. That isn't remotely saying they're a bad thing, they are not. They are a good thing. But club racing has been hurt and will never recover to the old days, it's changed and there is no fix because there isn't something inherently wrong.

 

Trackdays as a feeder happens but it's more riders who would race anyway. It's not something that gets riders who would never have raced to go racing. Racing is down to trackdays quite simply because we used to be the ONLY way you could ride your bike on a track and push the limits at all. Having a buhzillion other options hurt racing a bunch. Back in the day the majority of racers weren't into racing as much as riding on track - just like track day riders.

I disagree with the people who would never go racing if it weren't for track days. Those people would have wanted to be on track some way or another and would have just gone straight into racing. Same as the old days, via word of mouth or their friends or whatever. Same way they got into track days in the first place.

When you're comparing the old days you have to totally remove trackdays from existence - because they didn't exist. You can't try and factor them into what gets people on track now when comparing because when they're 100% out of the equation the riders would go straight to racing. It's not hard to factor in how they feed racing because while they do now, they did not in any way get riders to go racing who wouldn't have gone before. What they did is offer an option for those who would never have gone racing.

 

It can't happen. Our expenses aren't the same as STT so we can't compete on pricing per lap with STT. Not without compromising a lot of things we just won't do that we feel are necessary for racing and aren't for a trackday. Not enough of them would show up to offset the loss in income, we've tried coupons and discounts and the like and none have ever actually worked. Cost isn't the issue even if that is their excuse. I truly believe the majority are like me - no interest in gridding up and pushing it that hard.

 

My statements are absolute factually true. You need to stop reading into them your own feelings or whatever it is you're doing. I know things have changed, that it exactly my point. They have changed a lot. Yet for some reason people keep thinking I'm bitching about track days and get all defensive because that's how they got into racing.

Back to reality - You're talking to people in an era where trackdays exist - that's the problem when you're comparing to an era when they didn't happen at all. They absolutely would have considered racing if there were no other way on track. Just like the thousands of racers we ALL had who no longer race - yet as I have said there are many many many more people on tracks every year than ever before. It's not a downturn in motorcycle sales that is causing less racers.

These are two entirely different conversations that everyone keeps confusing - when you look at the old days and start talking about how trackdays have possibly hurt racing by their very existence you cannot start talking about how they have helped in that same comparison. They have not helped compared to before they existed. Period end of story. They have hurt. A lot. However that isn't necessarily a bad thing for the sport of motorcycling as a whole, personally I think it's good.

Now, an entirely different conversation is with them existing, how to get more track day riders to go racing - that can happen but it's not as easy as people think since most have no interest in racing no matter which reason/excuse they give you.

BTW - those people who are complaining about cost, are they running old SV's or vintage bikes? Because you can absolutely go racing for the same cost if you truly want to race. That's where you have to step back and look at the reasons they give you.

 

I am curious about something for all of you who insist on arguing this stupid shit with me every time it comes up - when did you start racing? When was your very first time on a racetrack?

Lets start with WMH.

 

Exactly.

 

Yep, like I said in the dungeon, going to be one of those days with you.

Subject 1 - So you have no remote clue how people got onto the track before track days, you admit you don't have any experience in all of this, yet you still insist I'm wrong and you're right.

If you wanted to ride on the track BEFORE TRACKDAYS EXISTED - in all caps so maybe you'll fucking listen (btw the way, curse word inserted for the same reason as typing normally you continually ignore what I say) - then you'd have gone racing. If you had the desire to push your limits not on the street then you and your buds bs'ing in the mountains or at the dealership would have gone racing. It was the only option. Yet again - this was BEFORE TRACKDAYS EXISTED! And I am absolutely telling you factually that is how it would work right now IF TRACKDAYS DIDN"T EXIST!

Got it yet? My comments on the past are factually correct because I was there and every racer on here who raced then will tell you the same exact thing. That's how I got to the track. It's how everyone who raced before you ever heard of motorcycles got into it. Stop saying it's factually incorrect because it isn't. Your assumptions are wrong because you have no clue what the world was like without trackdays. I do. Many others here do.

Now - subject 2 - the current world WITH TRACKDAYS EXISTING - it is different and we're working within that world. Duh. We do reach out. Yet another area where you seem to not have a clue, who in the world do you think is working with N2 doing the endurance races? We work with STT doing them too. Do you even know who owns the web board you're posting on?

Subject 3 - yes, the world has changed. I know that. I have said something to that effect in every post I've made. So why are you ignoring that? Why do you keep focusing on my comments about before track days and trying to argue what I'm saying when you have absolutely NO clue what you're talking about?

I'm not the one with tunnel vision. I can discuss before trackdays because I was there and saw it. I can discuss with trackdays because that is the current reality.

 

Had a feeling. You've shown you don't have the slightest clue what it was like before trackdays existed and every single thing you say is based on them being here. You don't have the slightest clue what you'd do without trackdays because you've never been without them.

I have not maligned anyone and you really need to stop making up lies about me, I will only tolerate it for so long. I have never once said anything remotely derogatory about track day riders. I am not making them out to be lesser somehow - that shit is all you. As more proof you don't listen, I flat out said I'd be a trackday rider and not a racer if I had the time. I have repeatedly said it's a choice and nowhere have I come close to saying it's a bad one. I get the choice, it's one I'd make, it's great for a lot of people. I have also never said it's a bad step between street and racing. It's a good step. It's not a necessity but it's not a bad thing at all.

I've been doing this for 31 years this season and have talked to tens of thousands of racers and track day riders and street riders. I do get why people make the choices they do.

I have no problem pissing you off. You have refused to actually read what people type since you got here. You prefer arguing and actively ignore what people actually say.

If you post something worth listening to I'll listen. So far you've posted lies and stupid crap arguing a point that no one is arguing with you. The world is indeed different....