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NASCAR - MotoGP

Discussion in 'General' started by Matt H, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Matt H

    Matt H ah, mi scusi

    Read an article today (had to, since the title was "Boring NASCAR?"). There were some things that seemed to parallel MotoGP in my mind. Interesting to see something similar but in a different venue. Appears they are making some changes in 2013 due to fan reaction.


    "NASCAR just may be the most fan-responsive league in sports -- to the point of pandering, I sometimes think. NASCAR knows it needs its fans -- but it also knows it needs competitors more. Without cars and drivers, there would be no show at all to sell to the public."

    "Truth is, the better the cars and drivers, the less the rubbin' and beatin' and bangin'. That's about where we are, and where we're headed."
    "This mastery may well yield fewer and fewer wrecks and cautions, and therefore bunching up of fields ... and more and more high-speed promenades where, a la Formula One, your enjoyment will depend largely on your appreciation of car preparation and driver skill."



    But they also cautioned about their changes:


    ""What we have learned is the more times you change things around, the more advantage that a bigger, better-funded, more engineering-based team has," Pemberton said. "The more change ... the bigger the gap you get between the haves and the have-nots.""



    This reminds me of what a lot of the fan banter here is about - the parade, boring races of MotoGP. And also seems to touch upon issues of competitive balance, fan reaction, and grid size.
     
  2. Sabre699

    Sabre699 Wait...hold my beer.

    If a Moto-GP race is deemed boring because of lack of crashing then so be it. They have assembled the best of the world's riders to race there and without press and fan base...well...any sport is time dated. NASCAR is not at the top of my sheet but they sure know how to promo it. Changes are inevitable in all sports. Money rules all.
     
  3. Matt H

    Matt H ah, mi scusi

    I wasn't thinking so much the crashing, but just the lack of exciting racing stated by many here. The line of "more and more high-speed promenades where...your enjoyment will depend largely on your appreciation of [bike] preparation and driver skill". And the overall response of fans saying that it currently isn't that exciting (that's been said a billion times on this BBS).
     
  4. rd400racer

    rd400racer Well-Known Member

    I'll watch some of a NASCAR race on Sunday's if there is nothing else on. At the least I try to catch the last 10 laps. I have noticed ALOT of empty seats. Even at Bristol, which if I recall always sold out.

    I know the first thing everyone points at is the economy. But I wonder if some of the fringe group that used to go because it was the cool thing are just bored with the product.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012
  5. I have noticed that the annoying Nascar debates at work happen a lot less.
     
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Administrator

    Some are bored - but most never went for the racing, the went to the event. Those people are unable to pay for it now.
     
  7. povol

    povol Well-Known Member

    Nascar changed Bristol from a one groove high speed bull ring that required "aggressive driving" to make a pass, to a higher speed 2 groove track that took away the need to use the " chrome horn". Nascar has noticed the empty seats, and is changing it back, maybe even before the next race.
     
  8. ryoung57

    ryoung57 Off his meds

    Something that never seems to get talked about in these threads is the fact that a fan can keep his eye on a specific car during an entire lap; it never leaves his sight. In motorcycle road racing, that fan gets a few seconds a lap as that bike zips by. It's just not very fun to watch in person.
     
  9. ACDNate

    ACDNate Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of truth in that. Road courses don't suit live spectators very well. The Nascar fans I know are not fans of the road course race they have (Sears Point? Or whatever it's called now?)
     
  10. james walker

    james walker beat down, broken & busted

    if NASCAR ran shorter races i'd watch every week. i've got better things to do than sleep in front of a tv for four hours.
     
  11. jmaher

    jmaher Well-Known Member

    I wish they would pick different music for MotoGP and other MC races. As in movies, the music sets the tone at the beginning and the music they play certainly does not bring excitement to mind. For some guy channel surfing, hearing that music at the beginning probably has him switching to Spike TV. JMHO

    Joe
     
  12. G.Irish

    G.Irish Well-Known Member

    This. This is why rules stability is so key. The bigger teams can afford to spend astronomical amounts of money to explore every nook and cranny of a new rule set. The teams with less resources simply can't and often times get forced out of the sport as a result. Team KR, Suzuki, and Kawasaki were all victims of that when the switch to 800's came down, not to mention the various satellite teams that are gone. To be fair though, the economic crisis probably would've forced Suzuki and Kawasaki out either way. Rules changes just made it easier IMO.

    Even if a given rule change is made to reduce costs, constantly changing the rules erases any cost savings you would've gotten, at least in the short term. Formula 1 was flushing a lot of money down the drain doing that dance. They're actually still dicking around with the rules, just not on bigger ticket items like engine configuration.
     
  13. G. Irish, I think that in general, keeping the rules the same may be good for smaller teams, but 2007, the start of the 800 era, certainly does not prove that.


    The two manufacturers that spend the most in Moto GP, Honda and Yamaha, had sub par seasons that year compared to their normal standards. Ducati, which spends much less won their only championship that year, and their bike was so much faster than the others on the straights at the beginning of the year that it looked like they were still using 990cc compared to the other bikes. Suzuki finished the year in 4th, their best finish in modern 4stroke Moto GP. Even Kawisaki had one of their better seasons in Moto GP that year, and KR's troubles were due largely in part to the shittyness of the Honda motor.

    Keeping the rules the same allows the slower teams to catch up as the law of diminishing returns kicks in for the front runners, but as we saw in 2007, a major rule change can sometimes benefit the slower teams if they gamble correctly, and the front runners get it wrong.
     
  14. V5 Racer

    V5 Racer Yo!

    This. The first few laps are usually pretty good in a MotoGP race, then it turns into a snoozefest. I don't want to see anyone crash, I want to see them race. Used to drive me crazy that you would get 250GP and MotoGP on the same day, then wait for days for the good race (you know, the 125GP). :D
     
  15. The first race this year was exciting. Let's hope it continues.
     
  16. G.Irish

    G.Irish Well-Known Member

    That's a good point but I think there were a couple of factors at play in 2007.

    A. Honda gambled wrong. Had they gambled right it would've pushed Suzuki and Kawasaki down the grid to where they normally were or lower.
    B. Bridgestones. 2007 was the beginning of the end for Michelin in Moto GP and Suzuki and Kawasaki both benefitted from Bridgestones ascendancy, albeit to a much lesser extent than Stoner/Ducati did.

    Once Honda recovered from their screwup and Rossi and Pedrosa got Bridgestones, Suzuki and Kawasaki got pushed way back on the grid.

    That said, Ducati was one of the smaller factories that gambled right and were able to snatch a title. If the rules hadn't been shaken up I don't know that they would've had that opportunity. But I have to think switching to 800's then back was a net negative for the championship. At the very least, it killed Team KR.
     
  17. Yep, I agree that switching to the 800 cc was a negative overall for the championship. 2006 was the most exciting season in recent memory. Off the top of the head, I remember great battles at Sachenring, Mugello, Assen, Estoril, and a good come from behind win for Hayden at Laguna. The championship went down to the last exciting round at Valencia. I think if Nicky would have needed to win to take the championship, that race would have been a great battle between him and Troy. Im sure that there were a few other great races that year that Im forgetting too.

    None of the 800 seasons even came close to that in terms of excitement. I think there were more exciting races in 2006 than there were in 5 years of 800 racing. In 800, I remember one Laguna, one Catalunya and one Sachenring. There may have been a few others, but not many.

    As far as Brigestones, I do agree that they were and advantage for Suzuki, Ducati, and Kawi in 2007, but they were arguably more of an advantage in 2008, yet Suzuki's results slipped in 2008 once Honda and Yamaha got their bikes working better. Of course, Rossi riding on stones in 08 also played a factor.
     
  18. tikki50

    tikki50 Well-Known Member

    Bingo.
     
  19. povol

    povol Well-Known Member

    We took dozens of riders with us over the years, and about 90% of them were bored out of their minds during the actual practices and racing . They enjoyed the ride down, the parties at night, and the ride home. Very few went a second time and the same core group would be the only constant.Waiting a minute and a half for 4-5 seconds of action is not most peoples idea of fun. You really have to be in to road racing to enjoy it. It is a terrible spectator sport.
     
  20. The road race viewing experience is greatly improved when there are jumbotrons. You get to follow the whole race on the screen, and still get to see the bikes live for 20 or so seconds per lap depending on where your seated.
     

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