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Michelin Power One Questions

Discussion in 'Tech' started by BigHeadzDC, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. BigHeadzDC

    BigHeadzDC One Track Wonder

    This weekend I had my 1st negative experience with the Power One race tires. These are the DOT variants. 190-B on the rear, 120-B on the front. Front had 4 track days on it, rear had 1.

    Up to this point grip has been amazing, with tire wear about what I expected (2 rears to 1 front). Then without warning, I lost the front in turn 6 at Fontana. No slide, no warning, just BAM.. down on my head.

    Admittedly, these tires have had a few heat cycles, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had the similar 'light switch' grip to no grip experience. This was on lap 2 after 45 minutes on warmers at 180 deg.
     
  2. Teuton

    Teuton Well-Known Member

    Im no expert but I only use each front tire about 2 times then I sell it. Its probably completly unnecessary but Im paranoid when it comes to tires
     
  3. YZROOSTINYA

    YZROOSTINYA Well-Known Member

    4 days is alot IMO. I would not do more than one day on a "V" front for myself personally.
     
  4. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    Do a search.. you will find few, if ANY threads with similar conclusions as you. Most "experienced" riders (am or ex) know that 4 days on a tire is kinda.. well.. crazy.. And beginners tend to not feel the loss of traction. As the guys above posted, they would agree that 4 days is like, a few track days to many.
    NOw for some constructive info! THe 190 tire may offer more rear grip than a used up, heat cycled-to-death B will deal with. The V front offers more side grip and tends to arc through the turn better on the gas with a 190 (that won't spin up as much as the 180). When the B was new, it may have had the grip to deal with the larger contact patch rear. The B is a great tire, with a more rounded profile and firmer (5 ply) carcas to the more triangulated and softer carcas (4ply) V front.
    I could be off base on this info, but it is my observation having run both at top 5 regional expert pace.

    ALSO: Take endurance racing, some teams will ride tires down to the cords yet they still get around the track. It comes down to feel, and if your bike ain't got it you will struggle when the tire grip is anything less than ideal .
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
  5. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    Maybe tire is not reason you crashed.
     
  6. Mr Sunshine

    Mr Sunshine Banned


    So are you saying that if you like to run your tires a long time (well at least the front) you'd prolly be better off with the V front over the B front. But if you change your front tire fairly often the B front likely is the better choice?
     
  7. Mr Sunshine

    Mr Sunshine Banned

    What turn were you in?
     
  8. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    I would guess 6 :rolleyes:
     
  9. Mr Sunshine

    Mr Sunshine Banned

    Yup...I'm a moron. :)

    Interestingly enough a team mate of mine did the same thing but it was turn 5 and he was on Michelin's too. He said he just got greedy on the brakes.
     
  10. TWF2

    TWF2 2 heads are better than 1

    maybe at least you know which ones are 5 and 6, I have no clue how they number them.
     
  11. Mr Sunshine

    Mr Sunshine Banned

    5 is the first left into the horse shoe and 6 is the exit turn from the horse shoe. The horse shoe is the double left after the long left after the second chicane where Martin Cardenas last year took out Tommy Hayden (I believe Tommy) due to his brake lever not being where he thought it should be due to some bumping and grinding.

    And they paint the turn numbers on the pavement....I mean I have more than enough time to read it....oh wait I'm just kidding about the painting of numbers. :)
     
  12. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    Are you guys serious? I've put over 600 laps on a Bridgestone *soft* front and worn it down past the tread marks, and it still held great. It'd push if I tried to go race-pace, but I could still do within a second or two of what I did in the races.

    4 trackdays, if you figure you ride 7 sessions per day and average 12 laps per session (20 min / 1:40 avg time?) is ... 336 laps... well, fuck, I wouldn't race on that front either then, I just totally killed my point.

    Well, sort of killed my point. I'd *definitely* keep that tire and run it in practice and at more t-days. If I didn't have the cash for a new set, I'd race on it, I'd just expect it to push a bit. Doing two t-days and then tossing it as garbage is WAY too soon, hell I'd still race on a rear with two t-days on it.

    My message here is that modern tires (from any manufacturer) are quite capable of giving you ridiculous levels of grip all the way up until you pop a hole in them from wear. Don't be suckered into the "have to buy a new set EVERY race" mentality - maybe you do if you're setting the track record and want absolute consistency, but even the guys finishing top-5 could probably do so with a used tire.
     
  13. Dpucks

    Dpucks I'M GOIN FAAAAASSSSST!

    i heard that most ppl are runnin those power1s to the cords
     
  14. PlayHard

    PlayHard Well-Known Member

    Why are people so quick to Blame the TIRES? Tucking the front is the most common type of crash there is in our sport, no matter what brand tire you run, and can be caused by a number of different things. It sucks when it happens to us, but It happens, don't dwell on it.

    As for heat cycles, that is the one thing I love about the new Power Ones. They don't seem to be as affected by heat cycles as compared to the old PR series tire. I ride an SV, which doesn't hardly wear a tire out, so needless to say I put a few heat cycles on a set of tires and haven't noticed a big change of grip over the course of the cycles. Just my opinion. :D
     
  15. BigHeadzDC

    BigHeadzDC One Track Wonder

    To be fair I'm not outright blaming the tires. That's really why I asked. If nobody else has experienced what I did, then I'll start looking elsewhere.

    The 4 track days are actually more like 4 x 1/2 days.. I'm a corner worker for Socal Track Days and Ti2TT. So I ride 1/2 the day with them and then work the other 1/2. My guess is the front had about 200 laps on it in total.

    It's entirely possible it was pure rider error.
     
  16. Dr. GoFast

    Dr. GoFast Well-Known Member

    that turn is really slippery, i know that for sure. i've slid the rear out of there under circumstances that the rear has not broken loose anywhere else (ok, maybe out of 13- another place to be careful on that track). it's kind of off camber and just generally doesn't have good grip. i'd say you should partially blame the track/turn just as much if not more than the tire. ultimately, though- it's your responsibility to know what places do and do not have grip.
     
  17. Inst Tech

    Inst Tech ain't no half steppin

    sorry for the jack, but I'm told to run 33-23 cold.(V- f ;B- rear) And not to worry about hot pressures. I usually get 4-5- psi rise right off the track. That means that the front pressure off the track is 38 psi. That seems a little high to me. Is that what you guys are running? Or am i just paranoid?
     
  18. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    I would be curious as to who told you 33front PSI/23 PSI rear. 33 front seems a bit high as Walt has said 30 for the V/B/A front is what should be used (cold). Now if it is cold outside, and the tire wont heat up as much using extra psi or 2 would be a good idea. SO 30/23 is what we in the SE and FL regions are using, there may be a reason for 33 front cold, i just don't know what it would be. Yes, 4-5psi increase from cold to hot off track is what is normal, but sometimes a rear gets REAL hot and i have seen as high as 29 off track. I will take some out from there.

    Just 1 example on Power1 front wear.. Lyles Sanders and I won the RRR 4 hour endurance ltwtsb race with Blue Ridge Performance on a kawi650 turning some 18's ..in the 1st laps AND the last few laps on ONE front V tire. That thing was amazing. I wish i had a photo of it because it STILL LOOKED GOOD after 4 hours. I could not say the same about "another" brand that wore poorly and had a huge lip on the edge. Similar bike.. Some tracks will wear tires more, and RRR seems to be easy on tires, but that was like over 80 race laps if i remember right.

    I didn't want to jump on the guy right out of the gate, but it is irritating when people are quick to blame tires for crashes. :cool:

    THe B and A are awesome tires..just different in feel than the V. I have not ran an A or B as long, as im mostly running the V. I REALLY like the way the A/B feel under hard braking though, much more stable than the softer carcas V. The B and V have the same edge rubber, so i suspect if ANYTHING the B would last longer having idendical rubber, but firmer carcas..
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  19. Dr. GoFast

    Dr. GoFast Well-Known Member

    i think what you meant to say is that you LOWER the pressure for cold weather (to help heat it up and have it gain more pressure) and RAISE it for hot weather (to control overheating and reduce the psi it will gain), not the other way around.
     
  20. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    nope.. You can do what ya like though. In theory you would be right, but it hasn't worked that way in my experience, especially with front tires.
    BEST thing to do though, is just set the cold PSI and leave em alone.
     

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