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Machinists, learn me a bit

Discussion in 'General' started by tophyr, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. SpeedyE

    SpeedyE Experimental prototype, never meant for production

    Tophyr,
    I bought a Grizzly G4003 w/ stands, locally/cheap....that had been crashed. I rebuilt it, dialed it in, and dumped it. For precision work, no thanks.
    It was made from crap materials, bad designs on all of it. Loose tolerances, no 'feel' to the turning dials. total POS. Might be nice/usable when brand new, but imho......a disposable lathe.
    Do your homework before purchasing equipment, as was said elsewhere in the thread, buy it once.
    As far as Clausing lathes, I have a 1970 '5900, it is a precise well made workhorse. Very solid/strong. I am unfamiliar w/ other clausing models. The 5900 is pretty common and not expensive, and is still supported by clausing (NOS parts).

    Whatever yoou get, spare/replacement parts have to be gettable (NOS or used).....research that on whatever you are looking at locally, too.....very important.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  2. pscook

    pscook Well-Known Member

    There are some great replies here, I wish that I had reached out like this before I bought my lathe. Howevber, over the course of the last 10 years I have fit many wheels to weird projects, and made lots of other round things (and a couple of off-center oval parts and a couple of wall divots...).

    I klnow that you said you want to start with a lathe, but I have found that it's easier to make round things on a "mill" (drill press, really) than it is to make square things on a lathe. If you have anything that goes beyond "round" then a mill will suit your learning habits and functional education better.

    Mill= Make more complex things, and learn about zero. Also you can surface case covers that get damaged, or other gasket surfaces that need help.
    Lathe= Make more round things and lots of cool spiral chips.

    Mill or Lathe= learning about crashing :D

    I'm flying out tomorrow for SD, then riding with Tim to the border in the afternoon. Drop me a note when I get back and you are welcome to witness the evolution of something into nothing on my lathe.
     
    Phl218, SpeedyE and tophyr like this.
  3. six6two

    six6two AWD

    Find and old monarch and a Bridgeport mill and go to town... stay away from the new shit.
     
    5axis and SpeedyE like this.
  4. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    If you're looking to fart around tinkering a Grizzy mill will probably be ok, I'd get a DRO to get any level of accuracy plus you'll likely have to screw around with the machine ways to tighten things up for repeatability. If you're serious then get a serious machine, you won't regret it. Cry once.
    I went against my own words recently and bought some chinese diamond wheels off ebay to grind weldon flats on carbide endmills. The wheels are crap and I ended up spending more money getting a USA made wheel which is obviously more money. Lesson learned (again), should have known....
    For a welder the Miller Diversion might be up your alley, the Syncowave and Dynasty models are even more $$. I have a Lincoln Squarewave 200 and I like it. It does Steel and Alum TIG, works for what I do, if I got more serious I'd get a Dynasty. I believe Britt uses one.
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  5. YoshiHNS

    YoshiHNS Mr. Slowly

    Bridgeports are a dime a dozen. There are a few CNC "kits" for them too if you ever get to that point. Maybe keep an eye out for a hardinge lathe too. If you have the space, don't cheap out.
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  6. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    I looked into turning my Bridgeport from manual to CNC using a kit from Centroid, they quoted somewhere around $16k. I ended up bagging that idea, might have done it for $8k but in the end it’s still a vintage machine. I ended getting a CNC and use both pretty regularly.
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  7. SpeedyE

    SpeedyE Experimental prototype, never meant for production


    Perfection


    My Clausing came w/ the Harding-style Royal collet-closure/handle......a PRICELESS accessory for a lathe.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
    sdg likes this.
  8. Scotty87

    Scotty87 Lacks accountability

    Jesus. The guy just started working with “grinders, a MIG and a bandsaw” and you guys have him looking for Haas machines and CNC lathes. :rolleyes:

    Get a Miller diversion or a Lincoln Squarewave 200 TIG. IF you outgrow it, you won’t lose much when you go to sell it.

    Find an older Atlas, Sheldon, or Enco lathe. A Hardinge or Clausing is going to be crazy money. Power cross feed is a necessity, DRO is not and can be added later.

    Don’t bother looking at mills until you spend some time at the lathe and figure out if this type of shit is something you like.

    Something that hasn’t been discussed either is the footprint these machines occupy, and the power requirements to operate them. A VFD can mitigage the power requirements, but there’s no getting around the sheer size of some of the things that have been suggested.
     
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  9. YoshiHNS

    YoshiHNS Mr. Slowly

    I'm going to say that you don't NEED power cross feed on the lathe. I ran one without it, and didn't mind. Didn't run digital readouts on the lathe either.
     
  10. SpeedyE

    SpeedyE Experimental prototype, never meant for production

    YUP!!!!!
    Not just the footprint of the machine itself, but the footprint of the operator around the machine. The usable area needed of these machines is huge, especially a bridgeport

    A clausing is prolly the most reaonably priced 'tool-room' lathe, $2500-5K. The Hardings, opposite end of the $ spectrum, a old good/clean Harding HLV-H gonna set you back $20K+. Harding the most precise, but most expensive. Also Hardinge only have a 1" headstock, a little too small.
    .
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  11. SpeedyE

    SpeedyE Experimental prototype, never meant for production

    I never used power-crossfeed in 16 years....but i was not doing production work, was doing one-offs, prototyping, and custom fab'ing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  12. jksoft

    jksoft Well-Known Member

    This is something that often gets overlooked. I have a South Bend 14" lathe and in order to do metric threading, I need to replace some of the gears in the gearbox. Some people have been able to 3D print replacement gears but I haven't given it a shot yet. If you have to buy gears, you are talking about big $ especially on this lathe since it isn't as common as the 9" and 10" versions.

    A local guy had a bunch of old CNC machines for sale. I can't remember the brand, but they looked similar to that Mitsubishi. He was practically giving them away, but after I research what would be involved in getting one up and running again, mostly on the electronics side, it wasn't a project I wanted to spend time on.
     
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  13. I think we are going to buy it :crackup:
     
    tophyr likes this.
  14. Venom51

    Venom51 John Deere Equipment Expert - Not really

    Let's not forget that garage slabs are not engineered with this kind of machine load in mind on some of these larger machines. Depending on the machine you might find yourself in a difficult spot getting a sunken machine out to repair a slab.
     
    SpeedyE likes this.
  15. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    Work bought this machine, it's a total piece of crap, it's embarrassing to even walk past, it's a glorified drill press
    Grizzly.jpg
     
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  16. tophyr

    tophyr Grid Filler

    lol :) yeah, i had started actually looking into that Mitsu, and also a Lodge & Shipley 14"x6' or a LeBlond 19"x8'... and then I realized "wait, i have neither three-phase power nor any conceivable need ever to turn something bigger than i am"

    The two I'm thinking semi-seriously about are a Craftsman/Atlas 10" with power feed and a couple DRO's already installed, and a Southbend 10" that's more expensive with some extras but no DROs... which might mean the Southbend is a better overall piece of equipment? Not sure.

    What sayeth those that know? $2k is more in the price range I was looking for. I could bump up to 3, but I'd need to think harder about it.

    So what makes it crap? Is it unreliable in terms of accuracy, etc?
     
  17. Phl218

    Phl218 .

    but now you have a drill press with DRO

    :D
     
    AC1108 likes this.
  18. Dan Dubeau

    Dan Dubeau Well-Known Member

    Out of those 2, get the southbend. It's MUCH more machine than the atlas. The DRO on the atlas doesn't really add value to me. The extra mass of the southbend is much more valuable. Id offer $2300 on the southbend, and see what he says, then go from there. If you get it for $2500, that a good deal IMO.

    I hear you on the 3 phase. It's a slippery slope..... Things can get out of hand quickly because industrial machines are the same money or cheaper than home shop machines.
     
  19. GRH

    GRH Well-Known Member

    To give it some context it would be fine for screwing around at home but for work use it's ridiculous. We do $80M/yr in sales. There is no reason a larger capex budget couldn't be negotiated to get an industrial machine. We have the space, the capacity, 3 phase power to get a much better machine. The guys only use it for drilling holes now and sometimes they still don't bother using it. Since I got my CNC (and even before that)I picked up all the work they thought they'd do with that. On second thought maybe I shouldn't complain, it's a great machine : )
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  20. pfhenry

    pfhenry Well-Known Member

    same reason a drill press with a x and y adjustable vice is a bad idea with an end mill.. machine doesn't weigh enough to keep from chunking the bit sideways.
     
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