how to know when to change gearing...

So here I am at Barber, on the straight between Charlottes Web and the Museum turn, red lining in 4th too soon before the braking markers. I'm on my RC51 SP1, running a 15/40 which is 1 down in the front. Lap times are in the 2:05 range, so I know I still have a lot to learn. 1st gear is too low in the Web, but second lets the Rpms drop too low for the best possible drive out. I am aware of the red line at top gear on the longest straight theory, I'm just thinking that with all the time I'm leaving out there, would it be a mistake to do a gear change to achieve that right now? Or do you think that making the change would by proxy help me drop my lap times? Maybe some of you guys who are familiar with the 51 might give me some insight as to what gearing you run at Barber? To compound the situation further, I think that I remember Josh Hayes saying that they use a "4 speed box" at Barber. I think that means that they just gear to get around the track using only four of the available gears- like 2,3,and 4, or am I wrong about that too?

I can't afford infinite sprocket combos, and as of yet I am not a racer. Barber is my favorite track, so any money I spend will be to optimize my riding experience there.

Thanks for the input guys- maybe I will see you in Vintage next year sometime since the 51 is legal.

 

At a 2:05, just shift. Don't bother with gearing. Once you get your times down what you want for gearing will change, save your money till that happens.

 

I'll second that...gearing is not the problem currenty. A 15/41 is good all the way down to the mid uppper 1:30's.

 

regardless of lap times, if you're aware that gearing is an issue, address it.

-1f/+2r is almost a standard for gearing changes.
imo, from the +2 setting you're better able to judge whether any additional gearing should be +1 or +3.

the purchase of one sprocket isn't gonna hurt the wallet as much as it's gonna help your program.

 

No offense and don't take this the wrong way but at a 2:05 he hasn't the first clue what the bike actually needs. You could do a 2:05 around Barber running nothing but 3rd gear with the stock gearing. The 6th gear just off the limiter rule doesn't work at every track or for every bike.

 

Here's what we are getting at.

If you are cresting the hill and running out of gearing in 4th now and say you dropped a single tooth on the rear. That would likely give you a little head room in 4th gear.

However as your exit of turn 3 improves and you are traveling faster over the top of the hill you are going to run back into the limiter.

The same thing will happen if you leave your gearing as it is currently. As you gain confidence and your apex speed at the bottom of 3 improves you are going to run into the limiter in 4th earlier and earlier over the top of the hill and shifting into 5th will start to work for you. Soon you find youself spending more time in 5th past the crest of the hill and your current gearing will start to make sense on that part of the track.

Will it be perfect? No. Will it work..yes. You are always going to be chasing the ideal gearing as your lap times drop. What doesn't work at a 2:05 will start to feel really good in the low 1:50's. It's going to get even better into the mid 40's.

Don't change anything currently. Just ride the bike. The bike is not holding back your laptimes.

 

"Work on your riding. You just might end up riding "into" your gearing."






Exactly my first thoughts. Drop your laptimes significantly and the gearing will probably be just what you need it to be. Gearing is never a fix all solution, its almost ALWAYS a compromise.

 

Thanks Venom and Spitz- exactly the input I was looking for. I must admit I think I have been hanging out in Novice too long, I think my lap times would be significantly improved if I didn't have to wait and pass only on the straights. I used to ride the track in third only, so I can tell that I am improving because I'm stretching 4th on the straights now. I've been told on more than one occasion that I leave stripes up the hill between turns 3 and 4- I love that section! Last weekend I really concentrated on staying on the gas until my braking marker instead of just rolling to the turn. After 3 years I think I am finally confident enough to make the jump to I group- I just wanted to be sure before I took the plunge. I sure wasn't trying to imply that the bike was the reason for my lap times, I know it bas a lot more potential than I do as a rider. I just wanted to know if a slight change might make an improvement. Next time out I plan to bump to I group (after discussing it with the CR who followed, filmed, and critiqued me), and hooking up with a CR who will follow and then lead me just a little faster. All that being said, it's amazing how different an animal the 51 is compared to a newer 600.

Thanks again for the info, you pretty much confirmed what I was thinking.

 

My .02 cents would also be to practice more "rolling through" the corners with more speed and earlier throttle. I bet you currently find Charlottes Web easier/smoother in 2nd than 1st, yeah? Only suffering on drive? That big twin doesn't always turn better when the r's are way up and the flat torque is doing work even if the motor isn't screaming near redline. Short shift it more and maybe ride a gear higher in the spots you are near redline.

 

who, me?

i don't get offended. i try to make my posts stand on their own...usually with some sort of qualifier like, "if you're aware that gearing is an issue..."
if he's not aware of it being an issue, then, yes, he prolly has other things to deal with.
while rising up to a particular gearing's challenge is certainly one way to go faster, what if it's too tall to begin with?
i think it is.

 

I own an RC..I've raced an RC...it's not the gearing. I didn't reference the high 1:30 laptimes for no reason.

 

Unles you are running black plastic for tires someone is shall we say blowing smoke up your ass.

 

and with 15/40 gearing you'd do what, go faster?
is that a gear combo that you, as a rider, could ride up to?

being experienced, or not, isn't the bar in determining whether gearing is relevant.
if the shoe doesn't fit, why would you wear it?

 

If I wanted to get back on that bike that would work fine for me there. I choose the 41 because I liked it better in one single portion of the track where the 40 was slower.

Sure it is. When you are 30 seconds away from what that particular gearing is capable of doing changing it is not going to be the reason for an improvement in laptimes. He's giving up too much in other areas to worry about gearing.

 

perhaps the reason he's giving up anything in other areas is because he hasn't learned what it's like to approach or depart them in anger. if he's luggin' the thing all around the track, how long is it gonna take for him to get up to speed? i think he'll learn a lot quicker with tighter gearing.

you said, "...what that particular gearing is capable of doing..."
that assumes the rider is capable of making use of that gearing. this guy isn't on that level. why hamstring him?

 

I'm not offended at all. I asked because I was curious, and I got the reply I wanted from a rider who has been there on an RC. This is my hobby and I really enjoy it. It's hard to realize that I'm 30 or more seconds off what the bike is capable of, but I can accept that. I got the answer I wanted, and that I suspected was correct. I was running 15/42 before I needed a new chain/sprockets, and was experiencing the same thing. In my mind, that means that I have already improved, which raised the question. Knowing that someone has been there and done that is valuable info- I just need more seat time.

All that, and my black plastic standard Pilot Powers used to leave stripes on the street too! Ha- ha...

Seriously, thanks for the input from all you guys. Now if I can find a deal on some brass balls, maybe I can rip off a 1:30 next time out. Even at a 2:00 flat I guarantee I'll still be loving it and having fun!

 

You need to ride a heavier bike. I think a H-D Electra Glide might have you beat by a couple of pounds.....

Seriously, that is a heavy bike. I know it's what you have and I'm not aware of your situation but you could probably learn a lot more if you rode something lighter with less power.

 

I used to do the same thing at blackhawk, I could go around most of the track in 3rd with the 1000 as it had so much torque down low, but in reality I could go much faster if I just used second and shifted into third when i needed. I fitted a QS and that helped simply because i never wanted to shift partly leaned over, now i can bang up that gear without worrying too much and carry that much more speed. Amazing how the littlest shit on race track really adds up quick.

 

Yeah, I know the 51 is a pig, but I'm one of those who loves to hate it. I also have a CBR1000 for my street bike. I've had it to the track a few times- just couldn't resist knowing how they compared. I've always been a sucker for the oddball stuff- I used to have a couple Mustang SVO's too. When they were right, they were fun, but never as good as the 5.0. I guess I just like to do stuff the hard way.

I decided last winter to make the 51 track only, so I spent some coin on a Penske and having the forks sprung and valved for my weight. I also added braided lines and did all the "free" mods. I took everything off the bike I didn't need short of hacking anything up. It is what it is, and I know that. It's not so bad if you look at it like the P90X of sportbike riding...and did I mention that I am a hulking 160 lbs?