"Free" college

The eating meat promotes hegemonic masculinity thread has gotten me wondering more about the people who are pushing for free college for all. If we go to a system where students have no financial accountability and can take whatever they feel like how many more people will take meaningless bullshit and make up topics to do their research on and generally be a societal leech. As a tax payer I would like someone to tell me what, if any our return on investment would be if everyone got free college. From what I have seen all it would do is devalue post secondary education, create even more personnel shortages in the skilled trades and cost the country a bunch of money. College has already turned in to young adult daycare and just an extension of highschool. And as a large chunk of the argument for free college revolves around being "fair", how do we fairly compensate those who have already paid for their college educations? Other than capturing the odd person that may not be able to go to college due to finances what are the pros of making a huge financial investment like that?

 

The vast majority of college majors and graduates aren't worth anything anyway.
Have the two tiers - the worthless garbage for free so snowflakes can sit in their brainwashing sessions, then party and become #metoos the next day tier.
Then have the engineering, physics, medical, etc. tier for those that count.

 

I used to think this way about education. I complained that my real estate taxes were paying for schools that I wasn't using, since I don't have kids. A friend convinced me that an educated population is one that is less prone to crime and more productive, and I believe that now. Now, I don't think all higher education should be free, but in a few states community college being offered for all students (whether they use it or not) is a positive, I think. It gives everyone an opportunity, if they choose to take it. If you flunk out, I believe you lose the benefit though (or maybe have to repay it - I guess it depends on the state).

I dunno, I'm less opposed to it than I used to be. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that student loans should be based on the ability to repay it with earnings from the job one could possibly obtain, as to avoid $70 - 100K in loans to someone who can only make $30K before taxes as a librarian or working at Starbucks.

 

The only way I'm potentially for it is if it's for STEM degrees only. Something that will help the country. I'm sorry, but your lesbian women's underwater basketweaving course will not help this country. No money should be allowed for that. However, the left will immediately pipe up and say that's some kind of discrimination.

The gov't is solely responsible for the current "college bubble". You can't get your college loans discharged by bankruptcy, you're stuck with them forever. Giving everyone money for college is just plain utter BS and third party loans, God help us. This is the next bubble IMO. There are going to be so many walking, "educated", idiots that can't find a job with 100k debt on their head, it's going to create a backlash.

 

Ha. My kid thought that USAFA was free. I explained to her that it is for me but that five years of hers is the payment

Her reply: I guess there is no such thing as free.

Atta girl.

 

The people getting the free education can always explain why it's worth it for someone else to pay for it.

What I don't understand is, if spending money to create an educated populace is such a good thing, why dilute that educated populace with uneducated immigrants?
It seems those two objectives are diametrically opposed.

 

College has gotten to be a load of bullshit, it's costs are going up much faster than health care and often times gets the graduate loaded with debt and no real job aspects. That said if you're a poor I wouldn't have a problem helping them out with a trade school or the such.

 

Free college would just be an extension of high school. As has been said there are already too many fluffy bullshit degrees and that would be worse imo.

 

The internet is the next logical step in education.
You could argue in the past that being in the college atmosphere is an enriching and growing experience where you begin to morph into an adult, but that no longer seems to be the case.
With STEM subjects, those students should be perfectly comfortable with online classes.
VR should cover a lot of labs. Lectures you can watch on your schedule.
Learn as fast or slow as you're able.

 

They’re also more likely to hold their elected representatives accountable, less likely to fall victim to divide and conquer political strategies and be more productive in engaging in the national political debate in general.

No system is perfect but I’m partial to the German way of doing things. Tiered education that starts young and more parity when it comes to valuing different sectors of jobs and their value to society as a whole.

 

The Germans do have a storied history of efficiency when they really get their game on.
The German way of doing things, one could argue, has been perhaps imperfect, but nothing to give up on yet.

 

Based on what I have seen from most college students lately I think we need a cite on that one. They seem very closed minded, almost cultishly social justicey and would defend and follow their chosen leader into the pits of hell if they thought it would forward their agenda.

This actually makes alot more sense if it is going to be a tax payer funded secondary education. Aptitude testing early and then direct them towards something they are a fit for. The whole you can be anything you want to be crap has given alot of people really unrealistic expectations for their life. If you have an IQ of 80 and want to get in to aeronautical design it does not really matter how hard you work. You will likely not qualify for the program and you will never be the next Kelly Johnson.

 

As soon as the stats show that the results lean towards one race/sex/makebelievesaywhatyouare then they would be scrapped. "Everyone" must have equal access to these funds. This will NEVER work in the US.

 

Good thread subject. Could your belief in the current system be skewed by the abundance of SWJ videos and news stories? I doubt there is a market in the media showing normal people getting thru life. Is there a cite showing a problem?

I think the current system is okay, the "for profit" universities have forced the "state run" to step up and offer programs for the liberal arts. It should cycle back around if they would start going after the free loaders that bail out on their student loans. Just by doubling my payment took a decade out of the payment schedule and paying off the loans were a priority for me. I would like to see the loans be more available for the Science/Engineering four year degrees and two year associate degrees for the trades.

I do know from personal experience a lot of Millennials voicing their excitement when HRC voiced her preference for free college for everyone.

 

Crash, think about it this way – who are the people that control the American political system in regards to holding their elective representatives accountable, who are more likely to be orchestrating the divide and conquer strategies (rather than falling victim to them) and are “productive” in engaging in the national political debate in general? Not the bullshit narratives that are put out for public consumption about the ring leaders, but the “anonymous” individuals that are making everything run the way the strategy dictates. Now extrapolate that out globally and you’ll start to see trends in terms of education and its effect on political systems (the reverse is also true in terms of having a population/people/person with low education).

For example – we’re essentially talking about socialized education when we’re talking about the German system. Why are individuals that would normally recoil at the mere mention of that term (and use it as a determinant for how they vote) also entertaining the potential benefits when trying to solve legitimate problems? The more general understanding of those dynamics by a voting population also allow that voting population to retain more control over the directions their leaders can take them in.

Keep in mind with all of this – “education” doesn’t necessarily mean a college degree – it’s more access and training in specific ways of thinking (usually around problem solving) and is most certainly not exclusive to attending a university (which is one of the reasons I’m partial to the German way – they understand that an engineer (more often than not) is useless without the people to make the stuff they dream up – and that as a result – they should be viewed differently from the American way of “white collar” v “blue collar”. The German next to me was selected for higher education and became a scientist, her sister was selected for a trade and became a baker. I shit you not – she marvels over her sister’s ability to make elaborate cakes as much as her sister marvels over her ability to solve complex cellular structures (a gross oversimplification that by definition can’t be universally applied but you get the point).

On the flip side, we live in an era where almost everybody has access to information that just 20 years ago, you’d have to spend ridiculous sums of time, money, effort and testing to get access to. Now almost everybody has access to it, which should be a great equalizer (and has been in some regards) – but it also has shown a light on what a key part of “education” is – how to process all that information. It’s no different than patients walking into a doctor’s office telling the doctor what they have and what to prescribe because of what they found on the internet – some are going to get the diagnosis right – most are just going to make the doctors job more difficult (once again – gross simplification). . .You’ll see trends in which ones are spot on, and which ones are out in left field.

And we haven't even touched the "morality" of using information to certain ends ect. . .

A final point – generally speaking – the older you get, the more set in your ways/thinking you get (close minded) . I have no doubt what you’re seeing is true. I also have very little doubt it’s just a piece of the overall story.

And sorry no cites – but as you can see – there’s too many pieces of the puzzle to go full blown academic on (and honestly I could spend months putting together the complete picture (and even then there could/would be some huge holes involved). . .but when anything comes my way on the different subjects, I’ll start sending you it on email to read when/if you get a chance. . .

 

I think you've just described a unicorn.
I doubt we have to worry about morons with a drive to be an astrophysicist or brain surgeon.
We do have to worry about intelligent people who think they should decide what everyone else should do with their lives starting at a young age.

 

I am actually not for that system at all as it is way more socialist than I can stomach. The problem is if "we the people" are paying for little Bobby or little Suzie Dimbulb to go to post secondary school we the people should also be able to decide where their limited talents would benefit society the most. I would actually like to see more money going in to STEM and Education. IMO, we have a huge problem with teachers not knowing how to teach and between that and teaching to the lowest common denominator with the no child left behind crap we have a system that is failing the students and allowing them to leave highschool with less than adequate skills.

 

This

 

yeah I just dont get how they cant get "discharged"... its like an albatross and more stable than residential mortgages!
The thing that bothers me is most cities have community colleges which are definitely "affordable" if youre willing to sacrifice your time but it seems some students choose something like those for profit outfits that do the same thing as a ju-co but at 5+ times the tuition rate and a whole lotta promises!!

 

I think this is where we differ in ideology. I do not disagree that a better understanding of the system would help the population retain more control. But in my opinion instead of education we are seeing more and more indoctrination so instead of a group of people that should be able to maintain control of the system they have become idealistic tools that can be easily manipulated by the Oligarchy.