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Electrician advice

Discussion in 'Other' started by sheepofblue, Jan 25, 2022.

  1. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    So I have the new 'farm' in TN and a metal pole barn that I want to have power/climate/plumbing in, think super hobby shop. It is 40x60x16 foam insulated now.

    So the question is for someone very handy with most things and have done electrical mods in past, how much would I hate myself to self install 200A service? Truth be told I would happily pay someone for the minimal I want now but either they disappear or don't return the call to begin with. Basically to start I want 2x50A and 4x110v with a light indoor and outdoor by the door and a ground fault 110 to meet code.

    Oh and remember wool is an insulator soooo I am good there....j/k there would be no power until I got it inspected so everything would be done with air gap to power so totally dead.
     
  2. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Sounds like a great hobby shop.

    Check with your county or municipality to see what their requirements are for pulling a permit. Some places you can do the work yourself, others require a licensed contractor. An electrical inspection before connection will most likely be required by the power co or by the permitting authority.

    Depending on what facilities are currently on the property, you may incur charges from the power company to extend their lines to you, or to upgrade capacity to handle the additional load.

    Actual install of what you are describing isn't that difficult and can likely be done in a weekend or less if you are familiar with installing electrical. Be familiar with whatever Electrical Code is enforced in your location (it varies).
     
    sheepofblue likes this.
  3. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    You can do your own work or licensed in TN. You get all the work complete then go to the utility and pull a permit. Then the state inspector comes on Tues or Thurs (utility coordinates with him). Once he gives it the OK the utility inspects my underground conduit (3" schedule 80) and if OK connects power. Then I put 6" gravel over it and burying it. At that point anything that happens can be unofficial :timeforabeer: (though kidding aside I would meet or exceed code on stuff I add)

    Oh and no power now. Once this gets 200A I will later be building the house. They have this setup at that time where I can put the meter on the pole and there is a box. The upside is I can pull another 400A if I want for the house. Or later I can add a third run to another out building. All on the same meter so no extra $$$ I talked with the engineer at the utility (very helpful) and have a price on the pole set etc. Including the changes when the house gets there.
     
  4. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    So the easiest is to install the meter socket and panel with a single outlet (120V) and get that inspected and connected. Add the 50 A RV plug too if you want.
    That shouldn't be all that difficult. The hardest work will be pulling the service cable into that duct/conduit. You'll probably need to rent a tugger and have help.
     
  5. SuddenBraking

    SuddenBraking The Iron Price

    Must.

    Resist.

    Joke.

    :p
     
    shobe750 and sheepofblue like this.
  6. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    They pull it to the meter for me :) I have a sheet the engineer gave me, I leave a 1/4" nylon rope in it.

    I might consider leaving the RV plug off pre-inspection though I like that :beer: The one thing I am pondering on now is the meter base to breaker panel. Most examples I have seen have it come through the wall then up in the wall. Mine won't be in a 'wall' just between 2x4 running up to the overhead beam is the plan. The cross boards as needed for conduit supports. At 'normal' height the meter would be behind the panel rather than above or below it. Got to think on that to make an inspector happy.
     
  7. drop

    drop Well-Known Member

    Where abouts in TN are you. Something I could help with.
     
  8. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Be happy about not needing to install wire in the conduit to the pole.

    As far as support, the panel must be securely mounted to the structure. Kindorf (Unistrut), metal or wood are OK, but securely mounted is the requirement. Attached to the wall or to the floor (with strut/steel). Flimsy mounting probably will not pass inspection.
    Best to put the meter as close to the panel as you can. If the meter is more than 25 ft from the panel, a disconnect at/near the meter will be required. For outbuildings, an interior disconnect (the main breaker in your panel) must be easily accessible within 5 ft of point of entrance. Different inspectors interpret this differently. You might want to draw up your plan and show it to them for comment before install.
    Usually, you want to put the panel on the inside behind the meter or very close. Wiring from meter to pane should be in metal conduit, either or Sch 40 plastic conduit.
    If its right behind the meter base, a metal nipple is good (1.5" for metal nipple for 3x 3/0 wire, 2" if its a plastic nipple).

    For 200A, you will need 3/0 copper THHN wire. Three conductors if in EMT/IMC/Rigid metal conduit, or 3 conductors plus a ground conductor if in ENT or other non-metallic conduit. (assuming single phase here)
    In some jurisdictions and situations, you may be able to use SE cable for this, but if it's exposed below some height (8 ft?) you will need to put it in conduit to protect it from damage.
     
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  9. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Excellant help. I was planning on right by the door. The rest all makes sense. Basically everything will be in conduit. As to the mount I was planning on 16' 2x4 from baseplate to top plate on the wall nailed to them. Certainly cross braces and considering a plywood panel to mount the panel to. If not mount it between the 2x4s

    As to the behind the part that I am struggling with (likely look at the house here) is if it is right behind it you cannot come in through the back of the breaker panel. So I would need to somehow drop down or come up inside to get into the break panel.
     
  10. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Ah looking at the Square D I take that back it looks like it has 2.5" knock outs on the back that I could mount up with the meter base....
     
  11. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Many breaker panels have a knockout in a corner on the rear side for incoming feed. Usually at the top or bottom of the panel. You might need to use some conduit on the outside to go from the meter socket to the proper place to enter the panel. Usually come out of the side of the socket and then 90 deg elbow or LL/LR fitting and then a LB fitting to get to the panel. Use watertight fittings outside.
     
  12. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Consider a panel with a plug-on neutral bar. Makes installing GFCI and AFCI breakers much easier.
     
  13. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Depending on your final install scope, there might not be enough room to do all the entrances to the panel for circuits solely from the top/bottom of the panel. If this is the case, consider using cross-bracing and mount the panel to the cross bracing to allow connections to the sides of the panelboard. (if you are planning on finishing the walls and having a flush mount panel, then this is probably useless advice.)
     
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  14. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Some stud walls but not there so mounting to a plywood back is a good idea so I can enter the side. Going to do a plug on. My understanding is I need one GFI outlet but I can do it with an outlet not a entire breaker. I want one for where the dog wash will go and eventually the rest room as both will have water nearby.
     
  15. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Oh and code requires one inside somewhere, same with an interior light (engineer did not think external on a 'farm' building but I will put one anyway would not mind having a switchable one on the outside.

    Stupid me I looked at the house and it comes off the meter into the back so that is how.
     
  16. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    Since you will be adding more in the future, the new 2023 NEC code which will be released this fall will require more things to be GFI and/or AFI protected than the current 2020 code. So plan on having to install those types of breakers in the future. The plug-on neutral will make those installs easier.

    For the current install, you could use a regular 20A breaker and a 20A GFCI outlet. You will need to have a separate circuit for lighting if you are only installing one outlet.
     
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  17. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Thanks I do want to keep stuff up to code but in that area once you are approved you can go nuts later :crackup: Even the utility guy said it with a wink wink. Of course if it is not reinspected it is not their fault :beer: Plus I want some of the stuff for protection of equipment and machinery.
     
  18. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Of course if I do a GFI breaker then I can combine the power over the dog wash and bathroom.... Need to learn a bit more on how they can be configured. I did notice that they have GFI/AFI combo breakers but they are pricey. Not to mention availability on stuff is dodgy now.
     
  19. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Well-Known Member

    Back from purgatory....referenced a post I could not see :(

    Thanks for the help I am waiting on some GFI/AFI breakers to come in and need to find some 3" sch 80 PVC conduit but everything else is here finally. Going to put some 2x10 up Saturday that is going to be my 'raceway' to fasten MC cable to. Brother will help with that then I can run line and put boxes up myself. After his race I might borrow him again for putting up the breaker box.

    Think I got all the code stuff figured. 2 AFI/GFC breakers for 2 quad outlet drops each (read 10 outlets is limit not sure it that was plugs or not but since most of those will be running power tools and stuff like my minimill more is fine) then a single AFI/GFC outlet by the dog wash that will later be extended to the rest room. A 15A AFI/GFC for the light inside the door and outside. That should get me inspected then I can add stuff after I move in and know some placements.
     
  20. beac83

    beac83 "My safeword is bananna"

    That should serve you well.
     
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