Clean water act

I’m curious to know what folks think about the general rolling back of environmental protections for the sake of big business? I think regardless of your political affiliation, most people enjoy hunting, fishing, and drinking clean water. How do you justify these rollbacks unless you’re a developer?

reference- https://www.npr.org/2020/01/23/7988...k-obama-era-protections-for-smaller-waterways


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks.html

 

Are you staying for the discussion?

 

I’m hanging out for a bit. I have some time to spare.

 

Rolling back an executive order mass over-reach and giving the authority back to the states as it should be and was prior to the grab four years ago? The states that do a better job of it than the massively wasteful and over sized federal gubmint?
Another win.

 

I don`t know specifically about that regulation; but I can tell you that most of their regs we deal with are over the top power grabs that address no real issue.

Glad to see someone reign them in. Way too much power.

 

Power grab?
Explain.

 

I agree with brex and cav115. The EPA and Section 404 regulations were insane. Google the definition of "Navigable Waterway" if you want to see how ridiculous the feds are.

 

come back when you’ve been educated, then we can have a discussion.

 

I’m going to ask you to qualify that statement with a true to life example.

 

The rollback is a very good thing. It would have killed a lot of farming.

It would have given the Federales absolute control over, among other things, dry creeks on your property. It's a scary piece of regulations.

Buck: https://www.epa.gov/cwa-404/streams-under-cwa-section-404

 

Any laws on the books that didn't take the proper channels through the legislative branches and legitimately voted into law are subject to elimination via the same executive fiat that created them.
No laws should be created by unelected bureaucrats who are not held responsible by their voters.
On top of that, the law sucked based on details I've read.
If you're looking to throw mud at Trump, be aware he signed into law and dedicated millions to cleaning plastics from the ocean...even though 90% of the plastic in the oceans come from 10 rivers, 8 of which are in Asia.
Carry on...

 

I hear this a lot (the farming piece) without much behind it. How exactly does the clean water act hurt farmers?

 

I have not done a ton of research but think a big part of the problem with the previous protections was the definition of "wetlands" and "waterways". It was so broad that farmers were being fined for digging ponds on their property and stupid shit like that. This was the one that I remembered and there were a bunch more but I am too lazy to look for them.
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-e...tles-water-pollution-case-with-wyoming-farmer

IMO, the Obama regulations were too over reaching which put people in the crosshairs of overambitious regulators. Hopefully these regulations move the bar to a point that environmental issues are minimized but people can still do what they want on their property (within reason). It is all political Kabuki theater though. In 2015 when Obama introduced his regulations via executive order Democrats all cheered that it was the greatest set of rules ever and the Republicans cried saying it was the end of the world. Now the Republicans are saying how great Trumps regulations are and the Dems are saying that it is the end of the world. They are all a bunch of lying self serving cocksuckers...

 

You own the land, but you can't disturb it. Can't use it to generate income to feed your family.

Just to add … when your friends with the USDA are against it, you know it's trouble.

 

You’re a bit off the subject. We’re not talking about the path a piece of legislation takes, but the actual legislation. Rolling it back because of the path doesn’t quite fit the discussion of the actual protections the legislation carries.

 

There are certainly aspects that need to be addressed with revisions, two were mentioned already in this thread. The EPA has also been politicized with their enforcement practices at the appointee level. I would absolutely disagree with the notion of delegating their powers to the state level, as is being talked about.

 

So you are OK with federal laws being implemented without representation?

I'm OK with The Czar adding rules to WERA racing; she's entitled. I'm NOT OK with the feds doing the same.

 

Are we talking about digging, or the dumping of dangerous pesticides and chemicals? Because afaik, the legislation addresses one specifically.

 

I believe that there is a law but basically says "The EPA shall keep our waterways clean". The definition of clean and waterway and how that should be done is left up to the EPA / Administration at the time. So there is a law, but it is too vague. The flip side is, you make it too specific and it can run smack into a wall of unintended consequences. At that point it can be slow and difficult to change.

 

I hear you, but This stance is more about principle than what’s good for the environment.