Cartridge Vrs re-valving / emulators

Help,

Trying to figure out as beginning racer and an assured back marker. Would I really benefit from cartridge forks or will a good front end setup be enough? My old GSXR had an Ohlins piston kit. It was less than I expected compared to a race tech setup on my friends (not cartridge).

I want the best setup I can get but if it isn't really going to help with my level not sure I need it.

Currently race bike shopping. An old man going back to the track next year with no real racing experience. I always just rode what I had, and didn't ever spend much on mods. I rode in the "a" group at the end and always at the end.

 

What I want is something that flops in a corner. The wheels feel like they are rolling on marbles that I can dance on.



Am I stupid to want to corner low?

 

You are overthinking it.

Coaching and track time before mods.
Then tires, then suspension.



Or all together

 

Cartridges. All day.

 

Need to get with Thermosman. When I was getting my '05 ZX10 set up, I asked him what the best bang for buck setup was and if I needed cartridges. He told me "Bike is too old to spend that much money on cartridges, you need this spring on the rear, with these K-Tech piston kit/flow control valves in the forks. It'll be 80% of what a cartridge kit would give you"

So I went with that setup for just a few hundred bucks, and got a bike that handled like it was on rails (An impressive feat for the 1st gen zx10). Having him set up my R6, my ZX10, and my ZX6 (and my next ZX6), he will make that bike handle however you want it to - and probably NOT tell you (in fact I'd almost promise it) that you need cartridges or a brand new shock to do so.

 

It partly depends on the bike and your preference. A 2003 SV650 with stock forks will be hopeless, but there are three main directions you can go with it: Race Tech emulators, drop-in cartridges (AK20s), and GSXR front end swaps. But just to make things harder there are fast guys using all three options.

 

the damping curve is way more important than the hardware itself. if u can find a good tuner that can get a solid damping curve into the stock hardware, go for it. but if thats not possible, u might want to go with cartridges.

 

There's a mental advantage of having carts IMO....I'm pretty sure i'm not gonna go as fast into and through a corner on stock forks or just a revalve, than i would with full carts on board. Not saying that i couldn't go through the corner at the same speed with less of a suspension setup, but mentally, i may not.

 

Back in my day ... I was winning novice races on resprung stock forks. This is back in 2010. Bike was a GSXR1K7. YMMV.

 

If your going to race, spend the money. Typically, youll take at least 4 seconds off of your best track time, even being at the back of the field. Ive seen 8 seconds come off of peoples times.

And it generally comes from the front of the bike, brakes and front end feeling from proper suspension.

Make the investment.

 

I'll agree that massive amounts of time will be dropped your first year or two racing but I'd be willing to bet just as much time would probably could be cut with just proper springs and a mechanically sound bike. I remember watching guys throw money at bikes only to get lost in the confusion of it all and go slower. I will admit that they may of had the suspension built somewhere but set everything up themselves.

 

Ill agree somewhat with the springs and re-valve.

If youre gonna do full carts., consulting a suspension guy and developing that relationship is next.

I dont go nutty with knobs. Ill just ask my suspension guy if what im feeling is right, wrong or, how do i make it feel a certain way.

 

I’ve had two issues where I described a problem and the solution is was told was perfect. One was a bike running wide on exit “add 3mm height in the rear” and another the rear tire would come up a lot and hop during hard long braking, “more spring with less sag”.

After having experiencing what it’s like to be told how to fix something and it actually work I’m a believer in these guys. Although I still have a tendency to play with stuff because that’s who I am.

Back to the OP, just get the basics done and ride the tits off it. Honestly a more stock setup is easier to ride fast anyways IMO.

 

That would be a relative fast, like mid to front pack novice fast.

 

The most important thing to do is actually ride the bike and identify what if any problems exist and proceed from there. All to often I see people spend big $$ on fancy suspension and they have no idea what they are even trying to resolve with it.

 

I agree, or they may even build an issue into by changing too much shit at one time. Probably will take a while before you can out ride the suspension to the point you realize there is an issue to address.

 

For sure, I'll even go a step further as to say most riders at our level will actually benefit more from a shock than they will a front end.

The rear of the motorcycle is easier to understand for damn near anyone, the feeling you get from the shock, the tire sliding, anything from the rear of the bike is almost immediate and understandable feedback. I've never met a rider that couldn't tell me what the rear of the motorcycle was doing.

Now the front of the motorcycle is totally different, this right here is what separates the men from the boys so to speak. Pushing a front to the point of knowing what the front tire is doing and when it's on the limit is a skill, and it's not a skill most of us have.

So this is why I say ride the bike and see what it does, As long as the front doesn't dive excessively and is stable under braking and doesn't do anything odd then I see no reason to go messing with it until you can longer control one of those things. Racing front ends are designed to have the shit beat out of them, you gotta push on them hard or they don't work right and you end up going slower, just something to keep in mind.

 

I took this approach my first year as an Expert and promptly crashed my brains out. The front end was even revalved. The next year, I had some carts installed and went a lot faster with far less crashing. So like all this stuff, YMMV.

 

" Back in my day" is eight years ago? You're just a baby, Matt.

 

No doubt that at a point you need better components, but for a beginning racer like the OP I really don't see them as necessary.