1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Capital Punishment Question

Discussion in 'The Dungeon' started by guerrilla, Nov 4, 2003.

  1. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    Just like to point out this is also spin.

    The being whose life is ended gets no say in the medical decision.
    It sounds much less distasteful stated your way, but a life is still ended. The only real difference between abortion and involuntary euthanasia is the age of the being who dies.
    Fetuses are aborted well past the stage of developement at which they can now be saved if born prematurely.
    And while they could not survive if left on their own, neither could a two year old, or thousands of children and adults who reside in hospitals or care facilities and require constant care. A significant number are mentally incapacitated to the point that they are unaware of their surroundings. What would be the difference in making the same medical decision on their behalf?
    The government is involved in many medical decisions, including regulating and providing medical care and providers. Requiring a doctor to be licensed and meet certain educational criteria is making a decision as to who can provide medical care.
    The whole abortion issue is rife with pitfalls.

    Both of you are spinning, you both just like your spin better.
     
  2. wera176

    wera176 Well-Known Member

    Nice spin... ;)
     
  3. mad brad

    mad brad Guest

    i was circumsized when i was young. i had no choice, and i'm sure it hurt like hell. but, i'm glad it was done. if i was going to be born into a microcosm that didn't want me, kill me before i have the ability to know.

    and you bible thumpers would take it as a free ticket to heaven, without all the pain and suffering life has to offer.
     
  4. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    By the way, I'm an atheist. It is my sincere belief that the only life you get is here on earth. The Bible and related books provide some interesting insight into moral living, but are just books, in my opinion. If it comforts people to believe in an afterlife, great, where's the harm? Maybe they are right, but I've seen no reason to believe. Religion plays no part in my opinions concerning abortion or anything else.
     
  5. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    I'd be more interested in a reasonable argument refuting my points. Twisting meanings is spin.
    At least point out where I have twisted reality here.
    I was merely pointing out that this is a complex, slippery slope.

    I have just never seen the basis for the argument that abortion is a constitutional right, or understood how seven people in a country of over 300 million could make such an important legal decision and remove the rights of the individual states to legislate such an important legal issue. No matter which side of the issue you come down on, I don't believe this issue correctly falls under the pervue of the Supreme Court.
     
  6. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    If that isn't leaving yourself wide open to this bunch, nothing is.
    (Ducking to avoid flying brickbats) :D
     
  7. guerrilla

    guerrilla Real King of the Jungle

    :D DICK

    It is so peaceful in my world, free from the ramblings of idtio's.

    In the immortal words of Michael Corleone:
    "Just when I think I'm out THEY PULL ME BACK IN!"

    RIP Yamaslob!
     
  8. mad brad

    mad brad Guest


    easy boss, i've kinda liked you until now. :D
     
  9. Shyster d'Oil

    Shyster d'Oil Gerard Frommage

    Now i know why Brad has issues.

    Rodger



























































    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  10. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    OK, now the important stuff.

    That wasn't Michael Corleone. Yes, it was Al Pacino but it wasn't in the Godfather movies.

    No, I don't remember what film it was either. ;)
     
  11. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    It was Godfather III I believe.
     
  12. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    I was thinking "Dog Day Afternoon" myself.
     
  13. guerrilla

    guerrilla Real King of the Jungle

    100% Positively without a doubt GODFATHER III!
     
  14. mtk

    mtk All-Pro Bike Crasher

    Damn, I guess I've got to go rent it again. :D
     
  15. guerrilla

    guerrilla Real King of the Jungle

    I recommend purchasing the DVD box set. All three movies plus TONS of EXTRAS!
     
  16. wera176

    wera176 Well-Known Member

    I don't believe that I twisted meaning anymore than you rebutal did, so my reply was more sarcasm than anything. Spin is when someone states that Pro-Choice = promoting killing fetus. You are 100% correct this is a complex, slippery slope and a debate that I mostly try to avoid until I spot a spin like that one...

    The medical desicion aspect of the whole thing is tough. When my wife was pregnant (and recently since she is again) the Dr. offered a test where they could detect an increase chance of Downs and other things (can't remember the details). We asked if it was required, which it isn't. He asked what would we do if we found the child had a likelihood or a higher chance than normal of Downs (etc) and we said nothing. He smiled and said then there is no reason to take the test. But I had to wonder when we got the ultrasound if we noticed serious problems (no spinal cord type problems) what would we do? Our son is 100% heathly, so it was all moot... I know a guy from work who's son has a rare disorder where, amoung other things, he doesn't develope grey matter. This poor little dude has no way to communicate, can't walk, crawl, etc. and has little to no control over even his involuntary muscles and has had more surgeries on everything than all the people I know combined. This by the time he was 3. But you can see in his eyes (from what I am told) and his expressions when he is in pain or not, and he is in pain 90% of the time. He wasn't supposed to live this long and likely won't make it much further. If they were to get pregnant again and somehow they determined that the new fetus had the same problem, would you like to tell them that they can't abort if they wanted to? What if the life of the mother was in danger? No easy answer, but I don't believe that the goverment, do gooders, bible thumpers or the man in the moon should have any vote in the matter. It should be between the woman and her Dr. BTW, I am against abortation for any other reason (except maybe rape or incest...)
     
  17. In Your Corner

    In Your Corner Dungeonesque Crab AI Version

    All good points, which I believe point out why the current policies which resulted not from reasoned and debated legal policy-making by elected representatives but from the yes or no decision of seven members of the judicial branch are not what most people would choose.
    Having virtually no restrictions or conditions makes no more sense than having no access to abortions when it makes sense from a medical standpoint.
    The reality of the situation as it exists hardly conforms to what you described as the way you want things to be. You have listed a couple of legitamate reasons for abortion upon which most reasonable people would agree, but those reasons factor into only a small percentage of abortions performed. This incredibly gray issue has been decided in a black and white manner that will never be acceptable to a majority of citizens.
    That is one of the very reasons it is such an area of constant contention.
    You have described a pro-choice position which doesn't agree with no-restrictions which is what exists now.
    I'd say "Pro-Choice within reason" is more your position. Your position is very prevalent among people I know and various degrees of it are probably the norm across the population. So why are we stuck with what we have now? Why is such hysteria directed against anyone who objects to the proposition that there should be no restrictions?
     
  18. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    Who are the seven people y'all are talkin' bout? Ain't there 9 people on the US Supreme Court?
     
  19. WeaselBob

    WeaselBob Well-Known Member

    My man, you have made my day.

    Would you please rub a little salt in the wound and remind them it took a FRENCHMAN to point that one out :D
     
  20. HPPT

    HPPT !!!

    If you want to stay friends, never ever call me French. I just live here for now.:)
     

Share This Page