i am a good street rider making the move to racing and i have a couple of rd350s. the rd is in the same class as the rz, right? and if so i would assume that riders being of generally equal talent, the rz is going to be a much better bike. am i worng? does the rd have a place in racing, especially for a guy like me that has some talent but not much experience?
Nope, the RD is useless. ;-) Actually, the RD and RZ don't typically race in the same class, the RD being aircooled runs F500, which doesn't include the RZ. The RD400 typically is the best platform to start a F500 bike on (in my opinion ), but the 350 can be just fine. Of course, if you have two good 350s, depending on their condition, you might be better off selling them and get a 400 and some spares instead. The cost of the donor bike is just the tip of the iceberg - it's the "rest" of the stuff that costs money if it's done right. Ask my Credit Card how I know... ;-)
Chris is pretty on here, but...... if you want you can dump a 400 motor in the 350 frame.. At minimum the 400 has the better gearbox and it is a drop in for the 350 (closer ratio) the 400 has the motor about 1.5"-2" further forward in the frame to.. so while the 400 has a longer swingarm the wheel base is the same. the 350 is a rever to make power the 400 is a bit easier to ride from a power point of view. either one will make a GREAT race bike, good swing arm bushings, tight or tapered steering head bearings and a good set of shocks will be the basics, if your fast enough out of the gate you may need to upgrade the fork internals if you start experiencing chatter... focus on HANDLING first, upgrade the other parts as your riding progresses...
Re: Re: can an rd350 be competetive? In real life at the track, he can look kinda rough and worse for wear and tear.
Re: Re: can an rd350 be competetive? So how does the handling of the rd400 compare to the rd350? Sounds like it'd be much more balanced with the engine weight more forward. I made the mistake of putting a 400 swingarm on my 350 for my last race. Made my 350 handle like a truck coming out of corners.
I find the 350 to handle better than the 400, though the difference is very slight. The 350 tends to change directions a bit easier and also is a little more forgiving when you break traction. Everyone is giving you good advice. (except for the sell the 350's and get a 400 part!!) Setting a bike up properly can take some time and $$, though how much $$$ depends on how fast you want to go. In '99, We ran 2 350's, one was moded out pretty radical and the other was box stock, except for DG pipes, K+N 2 into 1 airfilter, Redwing shocks and tapered SH bearings. I ended up having to run the stocker 3 or 4 times that year and won every time I rode it. If your dedicated to running the 350, (wich I think is a GREAT idea!!) the first thing to do is follow YF's advice and sort out the handling first. Tapered SH bearings, fresh swing arm bushings and some aftermarket shocks. If your fast, bite the bullet and get some emulators for the forks while you're at it. (Race Tech springs are my fav...) Motor wise, the biggest weakness in the 350 is the tranny. We put a 400 tranny in our 350, wich wasn't a straight drop in but was pretty close. (need to space the clutch cover out a bit...) The motor itslef is bullet proof. Put some decent pipes and bigger carbs on it and ring its little neck. (a little portwork is a good idea as well...) We saw 11k+ rpm's for 2 straight seasons without a single piston or crank related problem. Replace the pistons halfway through the season and right before the gnf. Points gotta go, Motoplat or PVL are the best, most common ignition systems. PM me if you have any specific questions about my 350, but Yamaha Fan, CSpargo, Yamaha 179 and Yamaha 849 are all FAR better mechanics and more knowledgeable in general about working on bikes than I am. (I just do as little maintnence as I can get away with and RIDE IT!!) (first time I've ever used this smiley!!)
hey Mark I went to the cycle jam....hang out heard on the PA...Mark Marowe....thought it was you but ya changed the pronounciation....since you are a big Wine man then came the idea of Mark Merlot..... well.... i thought it was funny at the time...
Mark Merlot....... Cute. Who knows?? Maybe someday I'll be making my own wine, instead of selling other peoples juice....... (and you guys better buy some !!!!!)
Re: Re: can an rd350 be competetive? Assuming the general machanicals are OK to start with, my personal opinion on "major stuff to spend money on before going to the track" goes like this: 1) ignition (worrying about crap like this when you're learing to race sucks). 2) undercut 400 tranny - just bite the bullet and send it to R&D. NOTHING will make you smoother in the long run that a beautifully shifting gearbox. My 400 shifts better than ANTHING I've ever ridden, including my modern TZ. Those guys are spot on on the 400 gearbox. The ratios are about as good as you can do easily without going to a racing box and dry clutch (which I don't recommend for availability and reliability reasons for most tracks). 3) tires (i'll spare you my pro-dunlop monologue). 4) Shocks. Works, progressive, whatever, just something with decent damping and probably the lightest springs you can get. Most of the standard stuff available is sprung too stiff for these bikes. So, basically, you're looking at a serious chunk of change to make it safe, reliable and fast, but once done, you're not going to be worrying too much about the bike, you can just think about your riding, which is really why you're there, right? :up:
how much of a chunk of change are we talking about here? btw i have 1 orange stocker in great condition. i also have a white tanked model with a rebuilt motor and dg pipes and lastly i have a rusting piece of useless crap...thought maybe i could take the motor out of it for a spare and that maybe somebody (mototcarrera) might partially trade me the rest of the bike towards some suspension equip or maybe one of their sweet swingarms. i have a set of brass swing bushings and needle bearings. also i have a both a set of progressive springs (with seals) for the forks or a set of fzr400 forks with race tech emulators in them that i could swap in. so with these parts and extra bike in mind, how much more of an expense in terms of bike alone (i have all the other safety/warmers/trailer..stuff) to get me up and racing as a novice?
No way it would ever happen in NC. Sorry, but this just ISN'T the place to make world class wine. Not to say that Shelton, Ragapple Lassie and Raylin aren't doing a fine job, but even the cheap stuff from CA or AUS blows the best NC wines out of the water.
Get in touch with Scott Clough (Motocarrera). He's a good guy and a super smart tuner, and that's not a compliment I pass around lightly. He can make a fast and reliable motor for you. Scott and I race against each other on CT-1's, and he has my respect. :up:
Lot of good advice from a very knowledgeable group of people. I have been riding RDs since they were new. Both RD 350s and 400s. I like the 400s best, and have built several, but my current project is building an RD 250 for the V1 class. The RD 250 uses the same chassis and engine (except the cylinders, pistons, etc)as the 350 and I am confident that it will handle well. Here is what I have done to the bike: Installed good shocks, serviced the forks (oil, seals,etc), fitted Avon tires. I am even running stock RD wheels and narrow rims...In the engine I replaced the transmission with one from a 400, installed a Moto-Plat ignition, rebuilt the crank and ported the cylinders. Also installed a set of old TZ expansion chambers. I intend (hope) to run the bike at the June 4 event at Roebling Road. You can start with the RD 350 transmission but do need to install a good ignition system. Contact me at [email protected] for more info. Or you can call me, 770 775-3249. I live near Atlanta. Lyn Garland
I believe the tire warmers are out (not allowed in F-500) other than that sounds like your set for gear. ignition, shocks, bushings/bearings and a steering damper to get the thing handling are going to put you in the 800-1000 dollar range, the FZR forks will work fine if you want to run them they are sort of overkill and a bit heavier than needed. probably best bolt-on fit is an RZ front end, 35mm and only slight mods needed to drop a set of emulators in, (Vintage Specialties has the emulators) remember you can only run twin piston period calipers, no 4 piston FZR units. your also limited to non-floating rotors. Starting off with the above mods will get you a GREAT handling bike that is fun to ride, you can progress from there....
Can you mono-shock an RD for F-500? I have a pile of RZ350 suspension parts looking for me to do something with them...
Nope. But you can put the rz swingarm on and weld up 2 lugs to fit twin shocks. (Did that with our old 400) It might help if you check out the WERA rulebook and check the rules for the class. You can find it on the homepage for this site.
Good 400 forks with a good fork brace work great and are quite light. If you have handling problems with them, it's probably not the forks - it's just that most handling problems LOOK like it's the forks, and bigger must be better, right?... When I started racing mine, I had an upside down TZR250 front end on it with a 17" wheel. Handled like a piano falling down steps, and chattered so bad the front wheel was off the ground. Looked cool, though... Also, I checked the rulebook, and didn't see anything prohibiting tire warmers... I left them at home at Barber just to preserve decorum.... ;-) AHRMA does prohibit them, FWIW.
No matter how cool the packaging, it still boils down to spring rate and damping. Any idea why that setup was so particularly bad? Maybe really wussy street fork springs?
I think the opposite - the street bike had way stiffer springs in it, plus it weighed a TON. I've no idea if the damping was even close in them... I believe they're now collecting dust under Harry's bench in the UK...
