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Best 180 tire for track days?

Discussion in 'Tech' started by Billy B, May 21, 2017.

  1. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    So I raced back in the day and after 20 years out if it, only a couple track days here and there, I'm looking to get to a few track days this year and am wondering what the best 180 size tire is for track use. Slicks are fine, this bike won't see the street. I think most everything is 190 now but that rubs a bit and I have a 5.5 on the back of the bike I just picked up. Its a low hp 750 by the way. Thanks!
     
  2. WANABE RACER

    WANABE RACER Well-Known Member

    Pirelli 180/60
     
  3. stangmx13

    stangmx13 Well-Known Member

    can u fix the rubbing by running a longer chain?

    lots of track 180s, like Pirelli's 180/60, are >190mm wide just like all the 190s made for 5.5" wheels. if your rubbing is on the sides, they wont work either.
     
  4. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    Thanks Wannabe.

    Stang - its a single-sided swingarm so a longer chain won't help - thanks for the idea though. Right now it has a 180/55 Metzeler Racetech on it and that one has about 5mm clearance between the chain and the edge of the tire. Hopefully the Metzeler and Pirelli 180s are the same width since they're the same company, right? I guess if it does rub the chain, the chain will take care of that within a couple laps and it won't be a big issue anyways but I'd rather not chew a bunch off the side of a tire if there's a good track day tire for a 5.5" rim anyways.

    Any other opinions on if the Pirelli 180 slick that Wannabe suggests the best way to go? I'm guessing that's the Diablo Superbike slick? I looked for reviews but all are several years old - is it still the same tire?
     
  5. ceebus

    ceebus Well-Known Member

    Pirelli also still makes a 180/55 sc2 slick if the 180/60 is too big
     
  6. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    Yeah I saw that - the spec sheet from Pirelli shows the 180/55 is close to 180mm in width, but the 180/60 is 190mm width - ahhh... truth in advertising... So the 180/55 is likely the way to go in my case - if that's a good tire overall??

    And to be clear - I'm not going to be setting the world on fire with lap times (don't get me wrong - I won't be just riding around in the street group either), but want a good tire so there's something in reserve when I screw up.
     
  7. stickboy274

    stickboy274 Stick-a-licious Tire Dude

    Bridgestone and Michelin still make a great 180 race DOTs that are actual 180's. We stock those, and the Michelin Power RS 180 trackday tires.
     
    dobr24, MELK-MAN and badmoon692008 like this.
  8. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    As Stick stated above,. Michelin EVO 180/55 , it's not big like the other brands 180/60. Should do nicely for ya.
    the 180/55 is 637mm tall, compared to our 190/55 that is designed for a 5.5" rim as well, that is 654mm tall
     
    Mechanize and stickboy274 like this.
  9. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    Thanks for the input guys. Are the Michelins still like the Michelins of old, where instead of predictable sliding (like a Dunlop), they stick and stick and stick and then GONE! Immediate highside/lowside. This is how they were back when I raced - wondering if they still have that characteristic?
     
  10. stickboy274

    stickboy274 Stick-a-licious Tire Dude

    I talked to one of the engineers from France and figured out what that was about.

    The compound didn't go away. They use a hard rubber under the race rubber to give your the feel they want.

    The problem is, if you don't tell people that they ride until the race rubber is gone. Then you end up riding on the hard stuff that was never supposed to see the track.

    All you have to do is change them when the dots/sipes are warn away. You won't have that problem.
     
  11. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    The Michelins stuck great, better than the Dunlops/etc, but they wouldn't slide predictably, at all, even when brand new. I could run a Dunlop 364 and it would slide a lot sooner than the michelin but it would slide very predictably - you could hang it out like roosting on a dirtbike. The Michelin, if it let go, at all, new or old tire, I was screwed more often than not. I ran them because my lap times on the Michelins were a bit lower, but I ended up on my head too many times. And now with it just being track days and not racing, I don't give a crap about lap times and its all about having fun and having confidence in the setup.

    Do you know how the Michelin EVO or Bridgestone R10 EVO (I assume that's the latest BS DOT 180?) compare to the Pirelli 180 slick? Which will be more predictable when its sliding? And no, my bike ain't got no traction control...
     
  12. MELK-MAN

    MELK-MAN The Dude abides...

    talking tires is nearly impossible.. im not sure i ever saw an internet thread, where the reader was persuaded to change from one brand to another, based on what someone posted.. ;)
    What i DO know (and everyone else does too when you think about it for a second), is you are gonna need a lot of tires if you are racing.

    So.. Get a set of Evo's and see what you think. put a set of another brand.. see how it goes. With the michelin evo, it's pretty nice to be able to have a single compound and constructed tire, work really well, everywhere. All tracks (daytona being the exception for faster riders), and temps from stupid cold, to really hot. Will some brands work a little better at a specific track, with specific temp, and certain rider? i imagine so .. but having a single compound does remove some of the decision making issues that can arise.

    And don't worry terribly about "i need the right setup for ____ " . Put the michelin on, if you think it's pretty good with zero setup ? it should only get even better when you start to work with your suspension guy
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
  13. CR750

    CR750 Well-Known Member

    Billy B, back in the day I ran the Michelin's and know exactly what your talking about. The new Michelins to me have the same feel (great feedback) as the old Dunlop's 364/207s. The old days of they stuck good until they did not have long gone. They also heat up fast unlike to old-old tires.
     
  14. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    This is good to hear. Those Dunlop 364s would slide so predictably that I felt like a hero, until I looked at my lap times and realized I was a second slower than when I wasn't sliding at all on the Michelins. Now that I'm just doing track days, the whole point is to have fun, so I want a predictable tire more than anything. I remember getting a set of Bridgestones from a buddy who was racing a "semi-factory" Moto Liberty Honda 600 supersport in AMA - this is when Bridgestone was just starting to make decent race tires and these were special indeed - nothing like the Bridgestones you could buy through normal channels. Anyways, those tires stuck every bit as well as the Michelins I was running and slid predictably like the Dunlops. They were magic! I had a great weekend on those tires but never got another set (I wasn't supposed to have these in the first place).

    Anyways, appreciate the tips guys - I won't avoid the Michelins based on how they used to be 20 years ago!
     
    crashman likes this.
  15. tigerblade

    tigerblade Mostly Titanium

    I actually have both the 180/60 Pirelli slick and 180/55 Power Cup EVO for my 2011 750. I raced on Michelins years ago but was away from the track for over a decade and just getting back into it. So from my perspective so far, all these new tires are FANTASTIC. :p

    I'm only now getting back up to a decent(ish) pace and haven't run either of these ragged yet. Started out on Q2s until I started getting movement then actually used some 190 EVO takeoffs from a buddy to get back on DOTs. When they did start to move around, it felt predictable to me anyway.

    The 180/60 Pirelli is pretty large but I haven't had clearance issues. Currently running -1/+1 gearing, don't remember how many links in the chain.
     
  16. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    Yeah I figure all of the new tires are light years (ok, decades anyways) ahead of the stuff I ran on back in the day, hopefully they all slide predictably now rather than the typical Michelin of old. Thanks.
     
  17. CR750

    CR750 Well-Known Member

    Actually to me the feel is about the same, the big difference is the new tires are made to handle liter bikes so they last a lot longer and never get greasy after 5 laps. Speaking to the Michelins or Dunlops, I have had different results with other brands where the good wears off quite quickly.
     
  18. crashman

    crashman Grumpy old man

    Fellow old guy here. I used to run the old HiSides I mean HiSports and slicks and ya, they would let loose pretty fast. The new Cup Evo's are much more predictable, slide smooth and heat up fast even without warmers. Your milage may vary but they are my favorite tire.
     
  19. Billy B

    Billy B Old N Slow

    That's great to hear crashman. I'm not planning on using warmers so quick warm up is another thing that matters.
     

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