Bernie Sanders: What he's really about, in his own words

I never claimed ours was perfect. For certain types of ailments the wait time for treatment here can be long. But those cases are pretty rare. Something as simple as a moderate user fee would do wonders to fix the flaws in our system.

Level of care in the US is good if you have the cash. Between your health insurance premiums, Medicare and Obamacare you guys are paying out the ass to fund a broken system. There's no easy fix for your system.

 

More Doc in a Box preventative care, tort reform, focus on quality of years instead of quantity, eliminate the insurance disconnect between patient and provider. These are a start.

 

Yes, actually, there is.

Pay for what you use. Save for what you may need.

My annual health care bill runs somewhere between $0 and $200.

Did you not see the post about my newborn's double frenulectomy? 50% off "insurance price" by paying at time of service. Tell me again how insurance is the answer...

 

Only a fool would think that people would or could save enough for a major illness or injury. You can't predict with any certainty who is going to require extensive healthcare in the future.

I never claimed that insurance was the answer so I don't understand why you'd want me to say that. A dual payer system where you as an individual are able to pay half the amount that the insurance company would pay is stupid. Any jacked up rates paid by insurance companies is just passed along to people's insurance premiums.

Your healthcare system is designed for profit, not for a healthy population.

 

Exactly. People are convinced insurance IS healthcare, it is not. Insurance is simply financial protection against a catastrophic loss.

 

But your healthcare providers are in bed with your insurance providers and it's the folks paying those insurance premiums taking it up the pooper.

 

Welcome to capitalism.

 

So let's mandate that *everyone* has to pay insurance premiums whether they want to or not. That'll teach those mean ol' insurance companies!

 

Why would that help? Is that what you think I'm suggesting?

I never wrote anything even close implying there should be mandatory insurance.

 

No, of course not. You're more a vocal proponent of single-payer, government provided lowest common denominator care, and you don't care whose ox gets gored to pay for it.

 

Are you high?

I never wrote anything to suggest the US should adopt universal healthcare.

But your system is fucked needs fixing.

Just to be clear so you don't get a headache... I'm not suggesting that the fix is to convert to universal healthcare.

 

As much as I'd love to hear the economic basis of how an insurance company negotiates with Doctors and Hospitals to pay them less and that results in a mutually beneficial situation...

Fact is we provide better care. Don't believe me? Check the WHO report which ranked the US number one out of one hundred ninety one countries in responsiveness and quality of care. Canada was seventh BTW. Fact is American care is more expensive but you get what you pay for...

 

I don't disagree at all. I never wrote that the quality of service was inferior.

The issue is the cost of a for-profit healthcare system. Your cost per person for healthcare (combining insurance, Medicare, etc) is almost double that of Canadian healthcare.

You're getting ripped off by insurance companies and healthcare providers and the only counter argument I ever see is "socialism is bad".

 

Oh, that's right.

You're the one who bitches up a storm, stomps his feet and derides everything, and offers nothing as a means of improvement.

Forgive me if I mischaracterized your particular version of stupidity...

 

I go to bed every night with someone who is in health insurance and deals with healthcare providers directly on a daily basis. I can tell you with utmost certainty that the relationships between healthcare providers and insurance providers has never been worse. The exception to this is the case where smaller insurance companies merge with hospital systems or hospital systems build their own insurance plan where they have no choice but to get along.
Although I'm not a supporter of his, John Kasich has a health care plan that he stands by (I can't say it's his as it's actually the insurance companies that have been coming up with it) and it's is the direction many major insurance providers are following in his own state of Ohio and other states. The trend is rewarding healthcare providers with QUALITY of care, not simply letting healthcare providers get rewarded for QUANTITY of care.

 

Typical blow hard response from someone who can't handle an opinion different from their own. If you can't debate using logic or reason just make fun of someone... That'll totally work.

Since when does one need to offer solutions in order to recognize a problem?

What is the justification for procedure X costing twice as much when billed through insurance?

I can understand a small surcharge because there would be more paperwork involved but doubling the cost when billed through insurance is insane. If you were buying a car and the price was double if you needed a loan that would be outrageous. Why is there no outrage??? These are significant cost drivers for the premiums you are paying... No one cares?? Hardly anyone even seems to acknowledge that it's actually a problem.

Some people have insurance but choose not to use it because it would eat into their yearly maximums. What's the point in having insurance if they're not going to use it it? Paying the insurance premiums but then also paying for your healthcare out of pocket seems pretty strange.

 

Cost is relative to access and quality. In the US we have more specialist, specialized equipment, clinics, support staff etc., all of that adds costs. Most National Health plans limit costs, by limiting their investments in those things resulting in long waits for care.

The one thing Obamacare has proved is that the free market is much better at providing healthcare at a lower cost, than a fat laden government bureaucracy. We should NEVER have implemented Obamacare, we should have fully funded Medicare.

 

No argument there.

One thing I'll note though is that the stories of long wait times for healthcare here are grossly exaggerated.... But there is still room for improvement.

 

http://www.waittimealliance.ca/for-patients/

I wonder what "considerable money" means in real dollars.

 

I don't think procedure X costing twice as much when billed through insurance is the norm.
There are additional costs when it goes through insurance, so, only makes sense that the price would be higher when going through insurance.
However, if you take the insurance companies out of the mix, you are still going to have to have someone handle all of the administration that goes along with paying all of facilities so they can pay all of their people (nurses, doctors, staff, etc). Who is the someone? The government. How are they going to pay for it? Taxes. Again, free stuff costs a lot of money.


Regarding your last statements - I'm not following. If I have insurance, I'm not worried about any 'yearly maximums'...maybe that's because I don't know what you're talking about. I know I have an annual out of pocket maximum, but, I don't have an annual maximum benefit. Some plans have a lifetime maximum benefit, but, mine doesn't. Now that I think about it, I have an annual deductible, so, the sooner I hit the deductible, the sooner I have no out of pocket expense. So, I'm more inclined to use it rather than pay strictly out of pocket.