It sucks that politicians are already getting involved. It would be impossible to get one of these old airplanes flying under 121. Due to their age, the standard they were originally certified under is probably much different than what goes on for certification today. I would not be surprised to see the FAA come up with some special rule for these "sightseeing" type operations, similar to what they did with the original fractional ownership jet companies when they were operating under part 91. This is going to sound like an a-hole comment, but there is a reason mandatory retirement for airline pilots is 65. Most guys just aren't as sharp after 60 and that's when you're flying 3-4 days a week in a very standardized environment, with 2 pilots of equal capability. Looks like at least the pilot in command was very experienced, but reaction times, vision, etc will all be called into question. I have flown with guys who are 65 and are very sharp, and some who are not. Everyone ages differently. A heavily loaded 1940's airplane with 2 engines out on one side is a handful, I bet.
Buddy of mine built a Just Aircraft Super Stol, 900 lbs and 180 Hp, can't wait till he files off his 40 hours so we can go flying together. I asked him the other day how long for take off. He said 1,2,3 it's in the air.
They had small amount of fuel from what I can tell, no bomb load, and no ammo load. I wouldn't call the plane heavy. But two engines out, on the same side, and apparently one prop not feathering all the way, yeah thats a bad time.
I believe they usually have a special maintenance program/approved progressive inspection similar to a 135 AAIP for those warbirds that weren't originally type certified.
Empty weight is around 30,000, max gross is either 40 or 50,000lb, depending on what website you read. There's also lots of different engine configurations over the years. 1,500 lb fuel and 13 people (2,340 lb) means they could have been 10k under max. Accident report says they took on 165 gal, but that doesn't tell us how much fuel on board was. Alot of those older, supercharged engines, the pilots would not run them up to max manifold pressure to preserve engine longevity. So I would be curious if they had full power on. Also, alot of these older airplanes, in order to achieve the performance required for max weight takeoff, engines will need to make max power, possibly including water injection, etc. Many of these older airplanes were designed in a hurry and the engine out / stall characteristics are far from ideal. We will know alot more when the final report comes out. Sad times.
They are all R1820's around 1200hp. On the one I worked on [sentimental journey] they are rebuilt often. Preserving life or not once an engine or two goes out you do what you need to do to keep the plane in the air. They carried 13 .50's with thousands of rounds per gun plus at least a 2k bomb load when they went deep into Germany with a full fuel load and 10 people operating it.
I havent been following this one and just watched the vid....if what they say in the video is true...collings "done messed up A Aron...." You're flying people...for money...do the maintenance.
Yeah. It was torture watching him. He also seemed to be getting a lot of information from the newspaper, which isn't a great source on something this technical (or maybe anything). Regardless of the exact details, it's going to be what we all thought from the beginning. These organizations run on a shoestring and don't have high standards for maintenance, pilots, training, etc. Add in a complicated and VERY old airplane and things are going to go wrong sometimes.
Yep. And it sounds like both the problem engines are on 1 side. Thats a lot of adverse yaw for a 70+ yo guy, and maybe he pulled some power due to that and why they landed short...?? Ive cancelled a few flights due to mag issues.....even got stuck in NC once and a buddy had to come get me in his comanche. BTW Aluminum Overcast will be in Anderson for tours and flights at the end of August. You gonna swing by? I might come down.
There's a vid in the YouTube thread. I *did* put a disclaimer there when I posted it that the guy was terrible. It is interesting though. Called from the very beginning here.
The EAA has a flying B17...Aluminum Overcast. It has planned tour stops for ground exhibition and flying rides. As long as this "pandemic" is over... Here are some dates below....make your own decision about flying in one. But if your here just come out and see it..they are awesome to see in person. Upcoming B17 Flights August 21 - August 23, 2020 | Romeoville, IL United States Book Your Flight August 25 - August 25, 2020 | Kankakee, IL United States Book Your Flight August 28 - August 30, 2020 | Anderson, IN United States Book Your Flight September 04 - September 07, 2020 | Cincinnati, OH United States Book Your Flight September 11 - September 13, 2020 | Shelbyville, TN United States Book Your Flight September 18 - September 20, 2020 | Conway, AR United States Book Your Flight September 25 - September 27, 2020 | Shreveport, LA United States Book Your Flight October 02 - October 04, 2020 | Angleton, TX United States Book Your Flight October 06 - October 06, 2020 | La Grange, TX United States Book Your Flight October 09 - October 11, 2020 | San Antonio, TX United States Book Your Flight October 16 - October 18, 2020 | San Marcos, TX United States Book Your Flight October 20 - October 20, 2020 | College Station, TX United States Book Your Flight October 23 - October 25, 2020 | Houston, TX United States Book Your Flight October 30 - November 01, 2020 | Arlington, TX United States Book Your Flight November 06 - November 08, 2020 | Gainesville, TX United States Book Your Flight November 13 - November 15, 2020 | Oklahoma City, OK United States Book Your Flight November 20 - November 22, 2020 | Vichy, MO United States Book Your Flight July 26 - August 01, 2021 | Oshkosh, WI United States Book Your Flight https://www.eaa.org/shop/Flights/B17.aspx
I have watched them, literally, out my window and I would question that. They have had a number of accidents.
Nah. Probably not. I think they go there now because all of those groups have worn out their welcome here.
