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Aprilia RS250A vs. Current 300cc or 400cc bikes

Discussion in '2-Stroke Machines' started by JTRC51, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. JTRC51

    JTRC51 El Speedy Gonzalez

    I know there is nothing like the sound of a 2T bike, I also kow there is more maintenance/tuning that comes with it.

    But wanting to take the more street/rider friendly 2T out there, the Ape RS250 (CUP) and compare it to today's 300/400 cc bikes (R3, Ninja 300 & 400). How does the Aprilia stack up (handling, performance, power, fun factor, etc..)?? Those of you who have ridden both or own both, please chime in.

    I had a well setup R3 nut have long lusted for an RS250. Yes, the "real" 250s from Honda, Yamaha, and even Aprilia are even better, but they cost way more as well. So I want to compare similarly priced, developed bikes for this instance.

    Anyone?
     
  2. mattology

    mattology Well-Known Member

    better brakes, better frame, better suspension, lighter bike, same if more power even if kept conservative and reliable...

    the Aprilia is a much closer match to the SV650. It was never meant to be a beginner bike. How does the SV match up to the 300/400 cc learner bikes?
     
    JTRC51 likes this.
  3. ToofPic

    ToofPic Well-Known Member

    A Honda RS 250,and Yamaha TZ 250 is in a completely different league from all the others mentioned,including the cup Aprilia 250.
    I raced a Honda RS 250 in Formula 1 as an expert just for reference,way back I the 90's.
    A TRUE 2 stroke race bike is in another class compared to any light weight bike past or present.
     
  4. JTRC51

    JTRC51 El Speedy Gonzalez

    Yeah, that's why I mentioned the "real" 250cc 2T (Yamaha & Honda) are much better. But they also cost 3-5 times as much. Which is why I wasn't comparing those to the current model 300/400 cc.
     
  5. Sullivan

    Sullivan Active Member

    I have a 08 kaw 250 4 stroke and a Honda Rs125. I race my Rs125 vs 300/400 in the F3 class and win. There have also been Aprilia 250 cup bikes as well. The key differences imo are listed above by mattology. Agility, braking, chassis, fun factor are the majors. I can compete in the F2 class and run at the front with the Sv's. Had a guy explain to me that if you don't really modify the 2t stuff they remain reliable, As long as you do the maintenance. There is a lot if maintenance. My bikes are reliable and run strong. If you follow the service manual they are easy to maintain. Keep the jetting correct and follow the break in procedure and you are all set.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  6. mattology

    mattology Well-Known Member

    here is the power my bike (aprilia 250 cup) makes with the latest rebuild, and i still have the stock timing maps in it, with what i guessed to be jetting on the fat side.
    277 lbs with some gas in it but with stock wheels


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    here is what my other bone stock aprilia 250 cup did when i dynoed it ( i don't ride it anymore )

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I don't really think the 300-400cc learner bikes are at the same level at all, even stock horsepower vs stock horsepower let alone all the other stuff

    i think the key is to not overrev these bikes, take care of them, keep all the power valves and cables adjusted, and they will be very reliable.

    I think when you overrev them, don't have them jetted proper, or tune them incorrectly, they can get hurt more often.

    i think that they can be very reliable if you replace a few parts that have some known issues, and respect the maintenance intervals on others.

    i also think you should get one, because they're awesome.
     
    SpeedWerks Racing, Phl218 and ToofPic like this.
  7. d_alexand

    d_alexand Well-Known Member

    I've never ridden any of the small 4strokes but they seem to get around pretty good. I was surprised to see AHRMA match the KTM rc390 singles against the rs125 and 2-stroke motards up to 250cc. I looked up the specs and the rc390 and Ninja 400 both make 40-45 hp, same as the Honda rs125, but the 125gp's will have the weight and handling advantage.

    The Aprilia RS250, 125gp, and SV650 SS are all evenly matched... but the 90+ hp SV650 SB will have the obvious hp advantage on longer tracks.
     
  8. dave3593

    dave3593 What I know about opera I learned from Bugs Bunny

    I have a 1989 tz250. It does not have as much peak power as the later ones but I have noticed how well it still accelerates above 100. These gp bikes are narrow and have better aero which helps them on top. At a track day I could run with non current 600s down the straights although I was riding in the beginner group.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  9. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Well-Known Member

    Honda RS125 NX4
    Weight: 166 pounds
    Power: 42 hp stock


    The RS250 NX5 makes double the power and weighs around 220 pounds. These bikes are crazy fast if you are a good rider. And they have so much more character than any modern day stuff.


    You can also buy a Honda NSF250R which is the current Moto3 bike. 4 stroke. Still isn’t as fast as a RS125 though. Stock, that is.
     
    Phl218 likes this.
  10. motion

    motion Nihilistic Member

    To the original poster: An Aprilia Cup bike will destroy all the current street-based 4-stroke little bikes. No contest, not even close. 8-10 seconds a lap faster.
     
    JTRC51 and Phl218 like this.
  11. d_alexand

    d_alexand Well-Known Member

    Lets see some pictures of those TZ250's, RS250's, and RS125's.
     
    Phl218 likes this.
  12. Sullivan

    Sullivan Active Member

    Here you go. Both are 96.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Fonda Dix

    Fonda Dix Well-Known Member

    I have beat built SV's with good riders on an Aprilia RS250. It would decimate the 400/500 group.

    And FWIW, I got rid of it because cranks got REALLY hard to find and REALLY expensive.
     
    JTRC51 likes this.
  14. dave3593

    dave3593 What I know about opera I learned from Bugs Bunny

    Parts is one reason I went with the Yamaha.

    Used stuff out there plus the Brits make parts for them. Heck, they make parts to restore everything. If I was restoring a vintage toilet I bet I could get parts from across the pond.
     
  15. d_alexand

    d_alexand Well-Known Member

    Yeah the new Aprilia cranks are over $3k now, so rebuilding them is the cheapest option. The last crank that I bought was $600 back in 2002.
     
  16. JTRC51

    JTRC51 El Speedy Gonzalez

    That's what I am afraid of . Having to source parts from the UK or elsewhere for the RS250 Cup and also paying out the @$$ for it!!
     
  17. motion

    motion Nihilistic Member

    People are holding onto lots of parts for the RS250 in the US. I probably have five cranks stashed away, along with hundreds of other pieces.
     
    Phl218 likes this.
  18. freedomgli

    freedomgli Well-Known Member

    I don't know why people are talking about grand prix race bikes in here when you said you want to discuss how 1990s 2-stroke 250cc street bikes compare to 2010s 4-stroke 300cc-400cc street bikes. That's easy. The 2-stroke is more raw, visceral and faster. The 4-stroke is newer, fuel injected and easier to live with.

    2019 Kawasaki Ninja 400 ABS: 43.4 hp @ 9900 rpm and 24.6 lb.-ft. @ 8250 rpm measured at rear wheel on dyno, curb weight 366 lbs, 8.4lbs/hp (source)
    2017 Kasawaki Ninja 300 ABS: 34.9 hp @ 10860 rpm and 18.0 lb.-ft. @ 8370 rpm measured at rear wheel on dyno, curb weight 384 lbs, 9.6lbs/hp (source)
    2017 Yamaha YZF-R3 ABS: 35.1 hp @ 10620 rpm and 19.6 lb.-ft. @ 9110 rpm measured at rear wheel on dyno, curb weight 375 lbs, 10.6lbs/hp (source)
    2017 KTM RC390 ABS: 42.5 hp @ 10050 rpm and 24.4 lb.-ft. @ 8350 rpm measured at rear wheel on dyno, curb weight 365 lbs, 8.6lbs/hp (source)
    2017 Honda CBR300R ABS: 26.7 hp @ 8320 rpm and 18.0 lb.-ft. @ 6830 rpm measured at rear wheel on dyno, curb weight 357 lbs, 13.3lbs/hp (source)

    It's hard to get decent rear wheel horsepower numbers for a "stock" Aprilia Rs250 for comparison purposes. But let's say that a well-tuned example that's mostly stock (something like a '00 RS250 Cup bike or '00 RS250 Euro street bike with Arrow pipes) will dyno around 58-64hp at the rear wheels and weighs around 368 lbs in street trim (5.7 - 6.3 lbs/hp). If you're talking a race bike with some effort you can get them down to about 270-280 lbs. As for horsepower, how fast do you want to go ($$$)?

    I imagine that a 1992 Yamaha TZR250R or a 1994 Honda NSR250R would be largely comparable to the Aprilia RS250. There's a reason why old farts still play around with 2-strokes. You have to step up to a real modern sportsbikes like the 2017 Yamaha YZF-R6 with a 114 hp output and curb weight of 419 lbs (3.7lbs/hp) to really go faster.
     
  19. SpeedWerks Racing

    SpeedWerks Racing Well-Known Member

    Old Farts..........funny but true...
    The 90's 2T chassis's are much better than the steel little budget bikes we get today.
    If they produced them on par with that tech, the 300's would be well over 10K.
    This chassis/motor is 80's early 90's tech, but with a few tweaks, pretty good.
    https://www.cycleworld.com/riding-speedwerks-rgv500-two-stroke-masterpiece#page-8

    Last year we did test street 250's 2t's at NJMP and Mazz was over 2 seconds a lap faster than his KTM 390 lap record, the 2t's were stock on street tires.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  20. mattology

    mattology Well-Known Member

    new cranks are 900 dollars for RGV's RS's


    just use the suzuki crank in the suzuki plastic wrapper vs the suzuki crank in the aprilia plastic wrapper!!!
     

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